BSOD - Few things to try while waiting...

loda117 · Apr 17, 2012

Things which can help stop BSODs

Drivers – most common cause of BSODS are corrupt and outdated drivers.

If you have updated the drivers after downloading them and the problem is still there.
Download “Driver sweeper” and install that on your troubled computer.

http://www.guru3d.com/category/driversweeper/

Download all latest drivers available from your manufacturer’s website
Boot in to Safe mode
Use driver sweeper to uninstall currently installed drivers
Reboot
Reboot into safe mode again
Install the latest drivers
Boot

Memory Test
BSODs can be caused by the hardware issues as well. Most common is the memory corruption. It is very important to run memtest on single stick of RAM at a time in troubled computer. Running test on all RAM sticks at once does not give accurate results

Download memtest

www.memtest.org (.iso file)

Burn that on a CD, as a bootable image
Turn your computer off
Remove all but one RAM stick from your computer
Boot your computer with memtest cd
Run 8 – 11 passes on that stick
Shutdown the PC
Take the tested RAM stick out and plug in the next RAM stick
Boot again with memtest CD and run 8 – 11 passes

Repeat the process until all RAM sticks are tested individually

HARD DRIVE Test
Another cause of BSODS is hard drive problems. Hard drive can have errors, sector corruption etc yet it does not make any noises that indicate that there is an problem

Download hard drive diagnostic tool from your hard drive manufacturer http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287
Burn that on CD as bootable image
Boot your computer with that CD
Run extensive test

CPU Test
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/
Download Prime 95
Use the Large FFTs for stress testing your CPU

Dave76 · Apr 19, 2012

Thanks for the information.

I have a few questions on the memory testing procedures, what are the pros/cons of testing all the RAM for the first test?
Will this give you an accurate indication that the RAM needs to be tested further?
Would it mask an individual RAM card problem?
Will testing the individual sticks hide a setting issue, usually voltage, for higher amounts of RAM?

I have seen, especially on older motherboards, that having 4GB or more RAM can require a memory controller voltage bump, and sometimes a DRAM voltage bump depending on the amount of RAM installed.
Also have seen individual RAM sticks pass memtest86+ but, show errors when all sticks are installed, this will usually be solved by the mentioned voltage bumps. This is what lead me to test with all sticks installed first, as this is common when larger amounts of RAM are installed.
There are many factors involved and many motherboards run high amounts of RAM at stock settings.

GZ · Apr 19, 2012

loda117 said:
HARD DRIVE Test
Another cause of BSODS is hard drive problems. Hard drive can have errors, sector corruption etc yet it does not make any noises that indicate that there is an problem

Download hard drive diagnostic tool from your hard drive manufacturer http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287

Burn that on CD as bootable image

Boot your computer with that CD

Run extensive test

BSODs can also be caused by filesystem corruption, so... after running memtest86+ a chkdsk /f/r should be run to check for corruption.

Dave76 said:
Thanks for the information.

I have a few questions on the memory testing procedures, what are the pros/cons of testing all the RAM for the first test?
Will this give you an accurate indication that the RAM needs to be tested further?

I prefer to run Memtest on all installed DIMMs first then individually if errors present themselves. One pass isn't always enough to detect some errors.
It is also a good idea to run more than one Memtest program... I usually use Memtest86+ and Windows Memory Test.

IF an error is found, then individuall DIMM testing is a necessity to pinpoint the faulty DIMM(s).

Dave76 said:
Would it mask an individual RAM card problem?
Will testing the individual sticks hide a setting issue, usually voltage, for higher amounts of RAM?

DIMMs with different voltages installed can cause false hits in Memtest... Also, any settings (O.V. or O.C.) should be set back to spec if any instability occurs.

Dave76 said:
I have seen, especially on older motherboards, that having 4GB or more RAM can require a memory controller voltage bump, and sometimes a DRAM voltage bump depending on the amount of RAM installed.
Also have seen individual RAM sticks pass memtest86+ but, show errors when all sticks are installed, this will usually be solved by the mentioned voltage bumps. This is what lead me to test with all sticks installed first, as this is common when larger amounts of RAM are installed.
There are many factors involved and many motherboards run high amounts of RAM at stock settings.

It is always a good idea to run matched DIMMs. Most of the time, instability is caused by mixing and matching different RAM brands and specs. Even a .5V difference between two DIMMs can cause stability issues.

Either way the test is done, it should be done both with all DIMMs and individually.

Laxer · Apr 19, 2012

I generally start at the ground then work my way up...

Test each stick by itself before tossing them all in together.

If they all work and the configuration does not is when I start looking at other causes... Bad slots/timing/voltage

Although doing a test with all might be faster I would rather not speculate. I have wasted far to much time with bad sticks...

loda117 · Apr 19, 2012

@gavinzach - You are right but purpose of this was to sorta get people started while they are waiting on TSF or here to get a reply back. As for the file system corruption. I am working on a paper to how to fix those issues with SFC and if there are issues then working with CBS log and trying to resolve them one application at a time or just doing repair with windows CD. As for windows memory test, I have seen that the extensive test seems to lag on higher DIMMS speciall over 4GB and last time i ran it sorta freaked me out but none the less it should be ran to make sure memtest+ didnt miss anything

@ Laxer - I know what you mean. i always start off with individual sticks myself and in my experience always catch the problem right then a there.

loda117 · Apr 25, 2012

here is the updated stuff
I have still lot of work to do with this document
any suggestions to make it better would be nice

jcgriff2 · May 3, 2012

Your attached text file -

Common things which can help stop BSODs

To start BSOD troubleshooting, you need to pay attention to the code that you were given on the blue screen. You will see one message over and over or see different ones every time you get BSOD. Following are the most common in my experience:
DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL – caused by a bad driver most likely
MEMORY_MANAGEMENT – most likely caused by Virtual memory or Hard Drive issues
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA - Drive errors, file system corruption

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL = bugcheck 0xd1

0xa BSODs are similar - IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

If no 3rd party driver named, I suggest running - Driver Verifier

MEMORY_MANAGEMENT = 0x1a and can be RAM/ other hardware failure

PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA = 0x50 and can be RAM/ other hardware failure

Event logs are very important to look at and can give you a whole lot of information about what is the cause of the BSOD or any other problem you encounter on your lovely windows. You can also see other errors, warnings, and events that are happening and recorded.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa997769(v=exchg.65).aspx

Windows Update- check that you are running with latest MS patches and Service packs. MS rolls out these updates a lot and sometimes hard to keep up with.

Agree w/ Windows Updates. I never work on BSODs unless Vista SP2/ Windows 7 SP1 is installed.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/downloads/service-packs

System Restore – if your system has encountered an issue after you changed something, applied a new patch from MS, or new drivers for that video card of yours than system restore comes handy.
Make sure to safe all your files and all programs
Click Start > All Programs > Accessories > System Tools > and Click on System Restore
Choose the date or time before the change was made and hit next.
Hit Finish when it is done
Reboot the machine ( it will restart it on its own)

rstrui can help in certain cases.

Drivers – most common cause of BSODS are corrupt and outdated drivers.
1) If you have updated the drivers after downloading them and the problem is still there.
2) Download “Driver sweeper” and install that on your troubled computer.
http://www.guru3d.com/category/driversweeper/
3) Download all latest drivers available from your manufacturer’s website
4) Boot in to Safe mode
5) Use driver sweeper to uninstall currently installed drivers
6) Reboot
7) Reboot into safe mode again
8) Install the latest drivers
9) Boot

*************************************************************************************Memory Test
BSODs can be caused by the hardware issues as well. Most common is the memory corruption. It is very important to run memtest on single stick of RAM at a time in troubled computer. Running test on all RAM sticks at once does not give accurate results
1) Download memtest
www.memtest.org (.iso file)
2) Burn that on a CD, as a bootable image
3) Turn your computer off
4) Remove all but one RAM stick from your computer
5) Boot your computer with memtest cd
6) Run 8 – 11 passes on that stick
7) Shutdown the PC
8) Take the tested RAM stick out and plug in the next RAM stick
9) Boot again with memtest CD and run 8 – 11 passes
Repeat the process until all RAM sticks are tested individually
If time permitted, it is also good to run windows memory test as well just so that if memtest+ didn’t catch something.
*************************************************************************************
HARD DRIVE Test
Another cause of BSODS is hard drive problems. Hard drive can have errors, sector corruption etc yet it does not make any noises that indicate that there is an problem
1) Download hard drive diagnostic tool from your hard drive manufacturer http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287
2) Burn that on CD as bootable image
3) Boot your computer with that CD
4) Run extensive test
CHKDSK -
Another way to find errors and bad sectors on the disk is to run use “CHKDSK”
Open up command prompts with elevated privileges
Type in “CHKDSK /F” – to fix errors on the disk
Type in “CHKDSK /R” – finds bad sectors and recovers readable information
******************************************************************************
CPU Test
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/
Download Prime 95
Use the Large FFTs for stress testing your CPU

Graphics Card Test –
Sometimes graphic drivers are the cause of BSODS. Updating, uninstalling and reinstalling, or even reverting to the older version of drivers does not solve the problem. Then there are two things that can be done.
1) Remove the video card and plug into another PC (if available) install the drivers and test the system to see if you start having the same issues.
2) Run furmark test to see if there are issues with your actual hardware.
http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/fur/

I'm not a big fan of Driver Sweeper, but I haven't run it in a long time, so things may have changed.

Hardware tests are a good idea if warranted.

GZ · May 3, 2012

Anytime there is a system instability, RAM and HDD tests are a good idea... In my, personal, experience... at least 60% of BSODs were caused by faulty RAM or HDDs.

Remember that odd-ball BSOD I had a while back??? I had tested my RAM with Windows Memory Test and it came up clean... I should have run Memtest86+ but failed to at first... I was convinced it was a Graphics issue.... When I finally did run Memtest, it found errors...

usasma · May 3, 2012

At work we first run a hard drive quick test when the customer first comes in.
Once we get it in the shop, we run Hard Drive long test, Memtest86+, and a generic motherboard test.
Then we check for malware.

That's approximately 80% of our business right there. So the hardware diagnostics save us a lot of work from the start.

FYI - The remainder is borked Windows installations that need fixing and occasional hardware problems that don't show up in the testing.

Another story:
But you've gotta be careful!!! I spent 2 hours tracking down a BSOD today only to find that the customer was having wifi problems (and the BSOD was in video stuff). Turns out that they hadn't pressed the Fn and F8 keys long enough to turn the wifi on! Ya gotta listen to the customer and read the other tech's notes in order to do a good job!

GZ · May 3, 2012

What generic MoBo test do you run?

usasma · May 3, 2012

PCCheck for bootable and QA-Win32 for booting into PE mode or in Windows.
Both are from Eurosoft: http://www.eurosoft-uk.com/

I really don't like them as they have numerous false failures - but they're better than nothing (and we don't bother with any of the loopback plugs that came with it).
I'd guess over the last 5 years we've had one or two problems identified by them. I've identified many more mobo problems than this by trial and error troubleshooting.

jcgriff2 · May 3, 2012

Don't forget about PSUs.

(sorry! - could not resist)

GZ · May 3, 2012

C'mon, John... You know that PSUs are the number 1 cause of BSODs!!! If it isn't a driver, or application, or RAM, or HDD, or Chipset, or Controller IC, or PCI expansion card, or CPU failure, or any other of the numerous hardware software reasons behind system instability it has to be the PSU!
(Pathetically Stupid User)

usasma · May 3, 2012

I still haven't seen the PSU sticky here! :0)

Dave76 · May 4, 2012

Agree, sometimes the system needs a new PSU, and sometimes the computer needs a new PSU :r1:

loda117 · May 4, 2012

I guess it is going back to look at the error code look a the mini dumps and start from there

As for PSUs - if you are working in retail environment and dealing with personal computers on daily basis, you will see that generic brands like HP, Dell etc use the most cheapest PSUs which cause all sorts of problems.

Vir Gnarus · May 7, 2012

gavinzach said:
C'mon, John... You know that PSUs are the number 1 cause of BSODs!!! If it isn't a driver, or application, or RAM, or HDD, or Chipset, or Controller IC, or PCI expansion card, or CPU failure, or any other of the numerous hardware software reasons behind system instability it has to be the PSU!
(Pathetically Stupid User)

I know some people have a tendency to try and correlate PC issues with PSU failure every time, but there is a justifiable reason for this. Quite frequently I had to deal with people who try and squeeze their budget as much as possible by ordering the cheapest PSU available (like Rosewill brand) because the PSU isn't a performance enhancing item and that "the only thing they need to worry about is wattage", so they claim. It always comes crashing down on them shortly thereafter. Newegg and other website reviews reflect this.

Granted, the PSU in general isn't a notoriously unstable item that is rife with problems and is bound to explode at anytime. But given that most people purchase el cheapo units that do fit that description, it's no reason why the PSU is given such a poor stereotype.

GZ · May 7, 2012

You are correct. What many people tend to not realize is that the power supply is the heart of the system. Without reliable, consistent power, all of those electronics gadgets that make up the PC can malfunction or fail. I have seen poor power supplies fry everything from HDDs to entire systems.

Unfortunately, people don't understand this and will purchase under-powered, cheap units or unscrupulous system builders will put them in systems... "Look, this computer comes with a 700W PSU" because that is what it says on the label.

And yes... There are some people who will blame the PSU in just about every instance. But that is a bad mindset to be in, it clouds objectivity.

Now, of course, if someone is trying to run an HD6990 on an Inwin 500W PSU... Well, that speaks for itself! :lol:

loda117 · May 7, 2012

None the less it is very important to know the PSU for the system which you are troubleshooting..
I have had a machine which I replaced the HDD twice thinking it was the HDD going back but turned out that it was the powersupply which was not able to handle everything in side that box.. so never say never but always keep in mind that PSU can cause very interesting problems

loda117 · May 7, 2012

ok added the power supply selection

Common things which can help stop BSODs

To start BSOD troubleshooting, you need to pay attention to the code that you were given on the blue screen. You will see one message over and over or see different ones every time you get BSOD. Following are the most common in my experience:
DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL – caused by a bad driver most likely
MEMORY_MANAGEMENT – Bad RAM or faulty hardware
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA – Faulty RAM or other hardware failures

Power Supply – if you are running a graphics card then you should be running a reliable 80+ power supply. Power supplies are neglected when comes time to put together a PC also computer manufacturer’s use very low quality Power supplies. If you are building your machine with that super fast video card, than make sure to get a very good reliable power supply which will give good clean power to your system and may save your system from getting fried from that nasty surge during storms.
How BSODs and power supplies are connected? Well, lets see if your power supply is under powered and having a hard time keeping up with the demands of all components in your computer than you can see a BSOD. Also, if your power supply is a poor quality and throw in age in this mix it can damage new or old parts over time which can lead to BSODs.
Here is a very nice article to read before purchasing a power supply (Watts isn’t just enough) http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f210/power-supply-information-and-selection-192217.html

Event logs are very important to look at and can give you a whole lot of information about what is the cause of the BSOD or any other problem you encounter on your lovely windows. You can also see other errors, warnings, and events that are happening and recorded.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa997769(v=exchg.65).aspx
Windows Update- check that you are running with latest MS patches and Service packs. MS rolls out these updates a lot and sometimes hard to keep up with.

System Restore – if your system has encountered an issue after you changed something, applied a new patch from MS, or new drivers for that video card of yours than system restore comes handy.
Make sure to safe all your files and all programs
Click Start > All Programs > Accessories > System Tools > and Click on System Restore
Choose the date or time before the change was made and hit next.
Hit Finish when it is done
Reboot the machine ( it will restart it on its own)

Drivers – most common cause of BSODS are corrupt and outdated drivers.

If you have updated the drivers after downloading them and the problem is still there.
Download “Driver sweeper” and install that on your troubled computer.

http://www.guru3d.com/category/driversweeper/

Download all latest drivers available from your manufacturer’s website
Boot in to Safe mode
Use driver sweeper to uninstall currently installed drivers
Reboot
Reboot into safe mode again
Install the latest drivers
Boot

*************************************************************************************Memory Test
BSODs can be caused by the hardware issues as well. Most common is the memory corruption. It is very important to run memtest on single stick of RAM at a time in troubled computer. Running test on all RAM sticks at once does not give accurate results

Download memtest

www.memtest.org (.iso file)

Burn that on a CD, as a bootable image
Turn your computer off
Remove all but one RAM stick from your computer
Boot your computer with memtest cd
Run 8 – 11 passes on that stick
Shutdown the PC
Take the tested RAM stick out and plug in the next RAM stick
Boot again with memtest CD and run 8 – 11 passes

Repeat the process until all RAM sticks are tested individually
If time permitted, it is also good to run windows memory test as well just so that if memtest+ didn’t catch something.
*************************************************************************************
HARD DRIVE Test
Another cause of BSODS is hard drive problems. Hard drive can have errors, sector corruption etc yet it does not make any noises that indicate that there is an problem

Download hard drive diagnostic tool from your hard drive manufacturer http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287
Burn that on CD as bootable image
Boot your computer with that CD
Run extensive test

CHKDSK -
Another way to find errors and bad sectors on the disk is to run use “CHKDSK”
Open up command prompts with elevated privileges
Type in “CHKDSK /F” – to fix errors on the disk
Type in “CHKDSK /R” – finds bad sectors and recovers readable information

SSD-
If you are running windows on SSD than it is very important to check for firmware upgrade for your
SSD. A lot of people will forget to do this (specially self builders) and will encounter tons of problems
that will either crash their systems or give them BSODs. So always check for the SSD firmware upgrade
before or even after installing the OS to avoid any issues.
Firmware upgrade tools are available at SSD manufacturer's websites and are very simple to use.
******************************************************************************
CPU Test
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/
Download Prime 95
Use the Large FFTs for stress testing your CPU

Graphics Card Test –
Sometimes graphic drivers are the cause of BSODS. Updating, uninstalling and reinstalling, or even reverting to the older version of drivers does not solve the problem. Then there are two things that can be done.

Remove the video card and plug into another PC (if available) install the drivers and test the system to see if you start having the same issues.
Run furmark test to see if there are issues with your actual hardware.

http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/fur/

BSOD - Few things to try while waiting...

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