Windows 10 Pro is certainly no upgrade it is a complete con!

[TonyDpc]

I cannot speak to highly of the help I received on the Windows 7 Sysnative forum , however, thus far the experience on the the Windows 10 forum is quite different, having spoken with several people who are employed with UK companies as IT support staff it seems that I amnot alone in my opinion of Windows 10 and indeed this is supported on other business users forums.
What Microsoft doesn't seem to understand is that most users and certainly business users don't want to have to waste time familiarizing themselves with new operating systems or finding out which installed app's they really don't need, we just want PC's with continuity of operating systems!
It is not my intention to upset the Windows 10 enthusiasts, but never the less it must be said Windows 10 really isn't user friendly , this is even admitted by a Microsoft software technician on YouTube 3.5 hrs to introduce the basics!

I have just submitted my findings to the Microsoft feedback hub with my email address, I shall be pleasantly surprised if I receive a reply
I have found that Revo uninstaller is excellent at removing the Microsoft bloatware.
I am uninstalling Edge & Bing in facvour of Firefox, Opera, Brave, Ducjk Duck or Ecosai but have been advised to retain internet explorer because of the proxies.
As to Windows 11 , we really don't need it and again its all about getting people to buy new pc's and subscribe to Microsoft.

Thank you

 

[britechguy]

Oh dear heavens. Another hyperventilation by a very, very late adopter of Windows 10.

I cannot count the number of people I've upgraded (and I include myself) since 2015. It is dirt simple to continue, without missing virtually a beat, with Windows 10 if you are a Windows 7 user.

The learning curve is very steep and fast. And the fact, and it is a fact that cannot be disputed, is that if you wish to remain in the Windows ecosystem you will use either Windows 10 or, if your hardware supports it and you so choose, Windows 11.

You, like all users of all operating systems, use what the makers of those systems provide.

And Internet Explorer is very soon to be stricken from Windows 10 and Windows 11.

Edge is preferable to Chrome. I, however, favor Brave, Vivaldi, and Firefox as web browsers over Edge, and use DuckDuckGo as my default web search engine in all browsers.

 

[andrewlen]

Hi Tony,

As someone that has worked in a supporting role with many small businesses and corporate sized companies over the years, I think I may understand some of your misgivings about Windows 10.

Without a doubt, the biggest change users face(d) when moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10 was the user interface. Microsoft, true to tradition changed the entire look of the operating system with their vision of an improvement for the future. Not everyone embraced the change and I didn't either at first, mostly because I don't particularly enjoy radical changes. But if you look at the history, that's par for the course with using Microsoft Windows.

Without going through all the little minor versions in between.

Windows 3.11 > Windows 95/98 - a drastic change. Improvement? Maybe.
Windows 98 > Windows ME - A total mess and disaster of an OS in my view.
Windows ME > Windows XP/7 - Hailed as a huge success by the natives at large.
Windows 7 > Windows 8 - Here we got a taste of what Microsoft's vision of the future was, but just another ME in my opinion.
Windows 8 > Windows 10 - Another drastic change, but one for the better. Stability and usability was restored, but many found the change a little too radical.

In response to the worlds outcries, shells that restored the familiar look and functionality that people were used to boomed. Shells like the free (no longer in development) "Classic Shell" and the still currently supported Start 10.

I've lost count of the number of installations I made of Start 10 to business machines when Windows 10 was first released, and a few of them continue using it to this day.

Suggestion: Perhaps that's what you should try to ease your transition?

Start 10 puts things back to where you're used to having them and makes Windows 10 look like Windows 7. But eventually, there will be little choice but to get used to Microsoft's vision of the future.

I've looked at Windows 11 and it doesn't excite me at all, but I see it as yet another Windows 8 type release. Why? Because in July of this year Microsoft revealed plans about releasing Windows 365. In the same way as Office 365 is cloud-based, so too will Windows 365 be and several of the changes I noted in Windows 11 seem to be priming users for such a change. I see both benefits and pitfalls for the future, but one thing is for sure. It's coming, and you and I, and everyone in between, will not influence the inevitable.

So what's the answer? Many say it's moving to an alternative like macOS or Linux, but neither has (nor ever will have) the number of software developers available for it as Windows enjoys. That's just the reality of the situation, so it's either keep up or get left behind. Most of the people that sound off about getting rid of Windows and moving to Linux I'd wager are still using Windows today. For me, I use all three. I have a MAC too and I quite like it. I also have several incarnations of Linux builds in my Virtual Machine arsenal, but in all honesty, none of them come close to the functionality and customizability that Windows gives me. I've removed most, because for me, it's like comparing a Motorbike with a Bicycle. There is no comparison.

https://filedn.com/lRckkYRfDkN7ybm1tRj3R6b/Oracle.png (Snapshot of my current Oracle VM VirtualBox contents)

I have just submitted my findings to the Microsoft feedback hub with my email address, I shall be pleasantly surprised if I receive a reply

I'd actually be gobsmacked if you got a reply. :)

I've no idea if the consumer feedback hub does what people expect it to do, but I'm inclined to think of it as a mechanism Microsoft included to give people an outlet to vent their frustrations, rather than on social media. I've never heard of anyone getting a reply to their feedback. But when you think about it, why would they? As consumers, we are little more to Microsoft than a grain of sand on the largest beach in the world. Unless an overwhelming number of complaints were sent that said the same thing, I doubt sending feedback to Microsoft would ever get a positive result. That's my take anyway.

As to the browsers and search engines you've mentioned, to my mind, that has little to nothing to do with Windows. Apart from a short period when Microsoft tried to force their users into using their built-in browser (and paid handsomely in fines for the attempt btw) there has always been the opportunity to use whatever browser you prefer. Or search engine for that matter. Don't like Edge? Delete its shortcut and pretend it doesn't even exist. Hate Bing? Don't use it. Simple.

Finally, I did note with interest the Introduction to Windows 10 video you included in your post, but I fail to comprehend the reason for its inclusion? Think back to the early days, where Windows for Dummies and other similar books were the only way to learn how to use your computer. I still have some of those books and am fairly sure a couple of them are still currently in use levelling out a couple of uneven legs on my workbench in the garage.

My advice is to take a breath and rather than be frustrated, seek out a solution that helps you conduct your business with as little pain and interruption as possible. I've offered you one solution with the suggestion of the Start 10 shell. What other problems are you specifically having with Windows 10? If you detail them, perhaps solutions could be offered that you're not yet aware of?

Food for thought.

Best, Andrew

 

[axe0]

Just my opinion, but in one area of Windows 10 in particular, I agree with TonyDpc that Windows 10 is not the best at.

My first computer came with Windows 8, which turned to Windows 8.1 as soon as 8.1 was released. In my opinion it was one of the best Windows versions I have come across most particularly because of its menu that I grew fond off because it was easy for me to organize things. Windows 7 on the other hand, in my opinion, has been one of the ugliest Windows versions I have ever used because of the default color theme available that still looks severely outdated, I have never been one to heavily customize Windows so I am glad I skipped Windows 7 so I didn't have to, I have used Windows 7 for a long time in VMs which was primarily to give accurate instructions on how to do things for those having problems with Windows 7. Also because I'm still fond of the Windows 8/8.1 menu, the Windows 7 menu is one I really don't like.

Coming from Windows 8/8.1, the one thing of Windows 10 that I don't like is the menu in that it is similar to Windows 7's menu which I never liked. I like the menu in usability and all, but simply because the menu reminds me of Windows 7 I don't like it at the same time.

Hoping that Windows 11's menu will be something like below, I would definitely want to get my hands on the stable version of Windows 11 as fast I can, to me the design looks incredible.

 

[andrewlen]

I would definitely want to get my hands on the stable version of Windows 11 as fast I can, to me the design looks incredible.

Interesting post axe0, mostly because I rarely hear anyone expressing praise for Windows 8.1, with the biggest change from 8 to 8.1 being the restoration of the Start button.

I'm curious about the statement I quoted though. You say that the design you included a snapshot of looks 'incredible', yet to me, it's the same menu as Windows 10, with the only exception being that the "All Apps" menu is off to the side whereas the default in Windows 10 is above the start button. The only other difference I see is that the entire menu and start button have been moved to the centre of the taskbar, rather than living off to the left-hand side. Aren't both of those merely cosmetic rather than functional changes? Am I missing something? I only ask because "incredible" seems to be an overly powerful adjective to use to describe what strike me as pretty minor differences from what we already have. I'd wager it would be possible to create a skin (shell) for Windows 10 that mimicked the above design exactly.

 

[axe0]

I've briefly had a feeling of Windows 11 on a VM and my experience with it was incredible, I liked the overall color theme used as it gives me the idea that it is aiming to be a modern operating system which I commend.

I agree with you that at first it is seemed quite similar to Windows 10's menu, but the look and feel for me when I used Windows 11 was quite different, and it did not remind me of Windows 7. It more accurately reminds of me websites that have been developed by Angular Material or React Material and I love the UX & UI designs of both frameworks.

 

[DR M]

Hi, Tony.

I'm sorry I'm jumping in your topic today, but since I already read all your previous topics/posts regarding your frustration about Windows 10 and Microsoft, I wonder about your persistence to open new threads about the same subject.

This is one topic where the subject is discussed widely and as I recall, there was another one the moderators deleted. You could just add your new post there, if you believe that it says something new.

Just a note about the subject: I am on of those who are very happy with Windows 10. I find the whole experience much much better and improved than with Windows 7. I am also looking forward to using Windows 11. What I can say here, is that every company makes/updates/sells their products with the way they assume is better to the consumers. It depends on us to buy them or not. This is Microsoft's operating system right now. For those who are not satisfied, there other operating systems to use: iOS, Chromebook OS, the so many Linux distros. It's our choice after all. And I'm sure there are so many opinions as the users are.

I cannot speak to highly of the help I received on the Windows 7 Sysnative forum , however....

What do you mean exactly by the above? I'm not an English native speaker, but it doesn't sound to me as a very kind statement. You can always continue to ask if you think you don't get the help you are expecting.

 

[Gary R]

I cannot speak to highly of the help I received on the Windows 7 Sysnative forum , however....

What do you mean exactly by the above? I'm not an English native speaker, but it doesn't sound to me as a very kind statement.

In fact Tony is praising the help he received in the W7 forums Doc, by saying that he can't speak too highly, he's telling you that there is nothing he could say better about the help he received there.

English is confusing in the way it phrases things sometimes.

On the subject of W10, all I can say, is that if you don't like it, then don't use it .... there are alternatives, and each will have advantages and disadvantages to their respective users.

I'm not too much of a fan of W10 myself, and do not use it as my daily driver, but then I'm just a private user, and there are few downsides to me doing so. That is not the case if you are a business user, where a great deal of the software you need to use is not available on alternate platforms.

 

[DR M]

In fact Tony is praising the help he received in the W7 forums Doc, by saying that he can't speak too highly, he's telling you that there is nothing he could say better about the help he received there.

Thank you, Gary. It seems that I misunderstood and I apologize for that.

On the subject of W10, all I can say, is that if you don't like it, then don't use it .... there are alternatives, and each will have advantages and disadvantages to their respective users.

Exactly. That is what I wanted to say in the rest of my post above.

 

[Gary R]

No apology needed Doc, your English is excellent, but it's asking a bit much for any non-native speaker to understand all our various colloquialisms and odd turns of phrase.

Wish I could speak a foreign language as well as you do. I'm limited to schoolboy French and German.

 

[britechguy]

The content of this topic regarding likes and dislikes (in this case specific to Windows, but it could be any OS or any product, for that matter) as changes occur over time are the very QED of the old saying, "You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time."

No matter what decisions are made in regard to UI some portion of the user base is going to love them while other quarters will hate them. There is no winning.

During those times where multiple versions are supported you can choose the one among them that you like best or hate least (as it can really be either case). But in the end, your personal preferences (for the generic you) don't mean diddly squat. An operating system is not, and never will be, a piece of bespoke software meant to cater to your personal tastes. It's the ultimate Swiss Army Knife of software, meant to serve diverse demographics doing very different things and at least attempt to balance the factors that make doing those things "as easy as possible" across the board. That does mean that everyone is subject to compromises of one sort or the other where their personal desires are not going to be met.

Windows 10 is now six years in to its production release, and its overall UI is stable. There is going to be no major change to it. And given how Windows 11 has evolved straight out of what had been intended to be Windows 10, Version 21H2, through most of its development lifecycle, I don't expect that whatever we get as far as UI changes will be very subject to change in that specific ecosystem, either.

Whether you like what's available, or not, it's what's available and supported. I've skipped Windows releases, but not often, and with the retirement of Windows 7 and the very-close-to-end-of-life status of Windows 8.1, that means if you intend to stay with Windows it will be either Windows 10 or Windows 11. When it comes right down to it this is a, "Deal with it," situation.

There are plenty of things I have not liked about every OS that I've ever had to deal with, including all the iterations of Windows. But having been dealing with Windows since it first appeared, I long ago learned that what I like or dislike personally is not, and never will be, a factor in what Microsoft does. And that's not because I'm unimportant or disliked, but because unless a large and vocal enough portion of the user base complains about something (e.g., the disappearance of the start button and start menu, which later reappeared as a result of that hue and cry) I have to learn to use what's available. I don't have a choice. I never have, and never will.

That is why posts like the one that launched this topic, and years into the production release of a given release of Windows, get under my skin so much. They are divorced from a reality we've all been living, for decades now, as OS design has marched along, and not only with Windows. They are glorified tantrums, which serve absolutely no one, least of all the person having them. Learning how to work with what you've got is a far better, and ultimately calming, use of that energy. They also very intentionally choose to focus strictly on the "what I see" aspects of the operating system. There is not a person in the security field that I know, or that I've read, who has not commented on what a vast improvement Windows 10 was on both the security and stability front. We all know how much it means to have something that's way more stable, and doesn't freeze or require frequent reboots, but the security aspect of it is very much "under the hood and under the radar" of the end user, as it should be. But those improvements are some of the most important as time marches on and cyberattackers keep coming up with novel attacks. And Windows 10 is vastly more secure than Windows 7 ever was.

 

[andrewlen]

But in the end, your personal preferences (for the generic you) don't mean diddly squat. An operating system is not, and never will be, a piece of bespoke software meant to cater to your personal tastes. It's the ultimate Swiss Army Knife of software, meant to serve diverse demographics doing very different things and at least attempt to balance the factors that make doing those things "as easy as possible" across the board. That does mean that everyone is subject to compromises of one sort or the other where their personal desires are not going to be met.

Agree with everything you said in your post but in particular what I quoted above. Just look at Apple MACs. With my iMac, customizability can be pretty much summed up with "We'll let you change the background colour of your desktop". Apple has consistently stuck with the "it's our way or the highway" rigid approach and the result is a rock-solid and stable OS. Too rigid for me to make it my everyday workhorse and whether or not that policy will be their ultimate demise only time will tell, but I'll give them this much, they've already lasted a lot longer than I thought they would. Had I made bets ten years or so ago, I'd be eating crow today. <g>

I still maintain that everything Apple is grossly overpriced though! Don't care how polished they are in construction or how enticing the boxes they package their stuff in look

 

[xrobwx71]

I'll add to this by saying as I've said before here and on other forums: You have an OS or OS's that are deployed on multiple millions of machines. Machines with uncountable variables in the form of hardware, 3rd party software whether OEM or installed by the user.

If there is an equation, and you could extrapolate the math, only the math, the good far outweighs the bad.

The fact that Windows works on so many different variables is awesome in my opinion. This is not taking into account the user and the untested software they choose to install or unsafe browsing practices. This adds yet another level of variables.

Throw the internet in the mix and you will find anti-MS blogs/forums. You'll also find anti-Linux, anti-Ford, anti-Chevy, anti-vax, anti-science out there as well.

These are facts.

I'm no fanboy, I'm too old for the word boy or fan to be associated with me anyway.

 

[britechguy]

It's also not that I can't or won't enjoy a well-written personal rant that is a clear expression of opinion based on what one likes or dislikes.

But the very idea of calling Windows 10 Pro "a con" is just beyond the pale. There are ways I could characterize this that would be entirely accurate, but gentlemen such as myself don't use such language.

It just entirely lacks any sense of accurate perspective.

 

[Corrine]

It appears this topic has been covered now and it is time to move on. Discussion closed.