The Great Mask and Vaccination Debate of 2021

britechguy · Sep 1, 2021

xrobwx71 said:
I was expecting epsilon.

That would have been a logical presumption. It is next after delta in the Greek alphabet.

Addendum: Looking at the WHO webpage on Tracking SARS-CoV-2 variants, it appears they've broken variants into those "Of Concern" (at the beginning of the Greek alphabet) and those "Of Interest" (starting further up the alphabet).

I don't imagine, though, that the letter designation will change if one were to move from the "of interest" to the actively "of concern" category.

Digerati · Sep 2, 2021

FWIW - I got my Pfizer booster yesterday. Other than a slight tenderness at the injection spot, no ill affects whatsoever.

A Guy · Sep 3, 2021

Have you tried seeing if you are magnetic?

A Guy

axe0 · Sep 3, 2021

I certainly have tried testing myself for magnetism after my Pfizer shots, just for fun and twice actually, once after the first shot and once after the second. You don't become magnetic enough for anything to keep sticking on you.

xrobwx71 · Sep 3, 2021

I tried on the Moderna at the urging of my staff at work and guess what, the magnet did not stick. The magnet was one of those strong neodymium ones that come out of a HDD.

Digerati · Sep 3, 2021

A Guy said:
Have you tried seeing if you are magnetic?

Where did you hear that nonsense? That's just silly.

Don't you know the microchip they implant in us with the vaccines only makes you glow. It does not make you magnetic. Stop believing everything you read on the Internet!

xrobwx71 · Sep 3, 2021

Digerati said:
Where did you hear that nonsense? That's just silly.

Don't you know the microchip they implant in us with the vaccines only makes you glow. It does not make you magnetic. Stop believing everything you read on the Internet!

Yes but the magnet would fry the microchip. Or one could stick their arm in a microwave.

Digerati · Sep 3, 2021

Nope. The chips are anti-magnetic. And, because they are tracking your movements, if they see you trying to zap your arm, they send a huge surge through the microwave's power cord, destroying the oven before you can zap yourself. And if that does not persuade you, they simply send a command to the chip that, in turn, makes you forget the chip is there.

Geesh. Don't you know anything?

Corrine · Sep 3, 2021

@A Guy -- look what you started! Martijn, Rob and Bill are definitely expanding everyone's "knowledge".

axe0 · Sep 3, 2021

Digerati said:
Where did you hear that nonsense? That's just silly.

What nonsense? The media reported it!

Jokes aside, it has been in the media. I follow a news site that since the COVID pandemic have frequently published articles on various statements around covid19, like some statements that go around social media where some folks proclaim that drinking something cures or prevents covid19, these articles are about fact-checking these statements proving whether they're correct or not. Obviously not everything was/is straight up true or false with sars-cov2 and covid19 but they are transparent articles in my opinion as they make clear what is known/unknown or not completely true/false for example. These fact-checkers have also published a Q&A explaining what and how they fact-check everything because of the number of people that questioned those articles.

Technically this media site hasn't covered anything about magnetism, at least not that I can find since there are a lot of fact-checked statements also beyond covid, but about fact-checking that these vaccines do not modify your DNA permanently and they explain how the different vaccines work. That incorrect statement I suspect is partly the origin on this magnetism crap, not sure though.

axe0 · Sep 3, 2021

Now I realize I'm spreading fake news about the media reporting about magnetism and covid!

Digerati · Sep 3, 2021

The difference between now with COVID-19 and in the past with SARS, MRSA, Ebola and other potential pandemics is we didn't have political leaders and other, non-medical, attention seeking idiots denying the science. And not just denying the science, but fabricating total falsehoods that contradicted that science.

The entire world would be in a totally different, safer (COVID free - or at least managed) place had our leaders simply listened to and heeded the advice of our top scientific/medical experts, and set the example for The People to see. Can you imagine how much good Fox News, just for an example, could have done if only they practiced ethical journalism, did their due diligence to verify the facts, and then reported facts about COVID from day 1? Instead, they knowingly repeated falsehoods knowing many of their viewers would take that information as the gospel.

I am NOT saying Fox is the only media outlet that lacks ethical journalism. But by far, they were on the side of the deniers. I mean, what does it say when an organization, supposedly there to "report" the news, Defends Its COVID Lies, Saying First Amendment Protects “False” Speech? By design, it has become an entertainment network, no longer sporting the ""Fair and Balanced" slogan.

I am just saying, since it is clear entertainment is their priority, and not "reporting" the news, viewers should be taking what they see and hear on Fox for its satirical and entertainment value and NOT as their only source of information.

A Guy · Sep 4, 2021

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A Guy

britechguy · Sep 4, 2021

Digerati said:
it has become an entertainment network, no longer sporting the ""Fair and Balanced" slogan.

That slogan was never, even for a minute, reality at Fox. They constantly presented outright lies as though those should have equal counterweight to truth. They constantly did (and do) violate:

Journalism 101: If someone says it’s raining and another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. It’s your job to look out the f**king window and find out which is true.
~ Jonathan Foster (attributed)

Digerati · Sep 4, 2021

True. I note way back in the day, TV Guide (at the time owned by Rupert Murdock, who was also CEO at Fox News), categorized Fox News as an Entertainment channel. Sadly, half the people who watch it, believe everything they say.

***

I have had a on-going battle with one of my daughters - who refuses to get vaccinated. I told her she needs to watch the news so she knows what is going on around her. But not just one news source, because then you only get one side of the story. She needs to watch 2 or 3 or more every day. And if they all say the same thing, there is a good chance it is true.

I personally watch 1/2 hour of HLN (Headline News) in the morning and the CBS Evening News at night. And if something important is not clear to me, then NBC news at night too to see if they say the same as the others.

But then she says she doesn't believe the news as they only tell us what they want us to hear. But that's why I said you have to watch multiple news sources.

I told here if she doesn't trust the news, then visit the CDC and FDA websites and read what the government agencies, whose job it is to know this stuff, are actually saying.

"Oh, I don't trust the government!"

I told her I don't trust the government either and I was in the military for 24+ years. "That's why I watch the news."

Then go visit the Mayo Clinic, Mass General, Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins websites, and research what the real story and science is.

"Oh, they only get their information from the government!"

I told her even our Founding Father's didn't trust the government and they created it! That's why they also created the First Amendment and the Freedom of the Press - so they could keep watch over the government and report back to "We The People".

"I don't believe any of them".

"So where are you getting your information about COVID and the vaccines?"

"Facebook."

I just don't get it. She's not stupid. She hates politics so she's doesn't follow this person or that person. She's a military brat so has had ton's of vaccinations and hasn't grown a 3rd arm out her back. So why she's against the vaccines, I have no clue - other than she believes the nonsense she reads on Facebook.

I share this only because I know there are 1000s, millions who believe similarly. Hence, the 4th and potentially worse wave of COVID is now upon us.

britechguy · Sep 4, 2021

Digerati said:
She's not stupid.

But she is willfully stupid, which is not the same thing as garden variety native stupidity.

Everything you document about what she says, what she does, and what she refuses to do, are the very definition of willful stupidity. She's been presented with a very reasonable set of suggestions to seek out multiple information sources and synthesize what can be when it can be.

If you will not do this, and you believe what you believe just because you believe it, with no undergirding support, that is willful stupidity. And, sadly, the only cure for that is generally either a "Road to Damascus" moment, whatever that may be for the individual, or, in this specific situation (and I don't wish this on anyone) actually contracting Covid and having the horrible realization afterward that you could have prevented it or at least mitigated its effects.

I'm not going through this with a child, but with the husband of a dear friend, who has just tested positive for Covid, refused the vaccine, and is "researching" things like hydroxychloroquin and ivermectin. And he's an example of unbroken willful stupidity even when the worst has happened. He also has a conspratorial mindset. I cannot fathom what anyone believes anyone else is gaining via Covid and trying to end the pandemic. I just really, really hope that he's someone who can and will live through Covid. My brother did (and he contracted it pre-vaccine) but he's a long Covid individual now. He still has intermittent issues with shortness of breath and his doctors have said "you're going to have to live with it or hope it goes away." There really are things that medicine cannot fix.

writhziden · Sep 4, 2021

Digerati said:
Then there are those who wear a mask in their cars when they are the only people in their cars. I don't get that either.

My wife is a medical worker and often puts hers on in the car. I've asked why, and she said it's habit to nearly always wear one, so she doesn't even notice or think about it.

Digerati · Sep 4, 2021

britechguy said:
and what she refuses to do, are the very definition of willful stupidity.

To some extent, I agree. But willful stupidity or willful ignorance requires you to know the truth, but you choose to ignore it, or refuse to accept it. Refusing to learn the truth is a bit different.

This may also be true when one is a "show me" type person and cannot see and touch and verify for ourselves with our own senses. If I say to a young child, "don't touch that, its hot!", he can see the steam rising off it, or even touch it with his finger. Thus verifying with his own senses, "yes, that's hot!"

If the child, after getting burned, then insists its not hot or okay to touch, that's willful stupidity.

There is a "leap of faith" that must be taken if we are to believe the news or trust the government. This can be a challenge when we have been lied to so many times - both by wannabe journalists who are just seeking attention for themselves (or more viewers - higher ratings - for more advertising revenue), and by some government leaders who are simply trying to appease their constituents so they can get reelected - that is, not by anyone interesting in "reporting" the truth. Or, as the case in other countries, corrupt governments trying to hide the truth.

britechguy said:
I'm not going through this with a child,

She's nearly 40 years old, as she reminded me when I was getting on her case about this. So not a child either. FTR, I was not so much upset she refused to get vaccinated. I was upset because the reasons she based her decision on were not accurate or just totally false.

writhziden said:
My wife is a medical worker and often puts hers on in the car. I've asked why, and she said it's habit to nearly always wear one, so she doesn't even notice or think about it.

LOL

I laugh, not at your wife, but since I posted that comment last Monday, I saw three totally separate reports about folks whining about mask mandates, [falsely] claiming being forced to wear a mask all day causes breathing problems. Two reports on national news networks were denounced/debunked by doctors who cited the fact that many "medical workers" (like OR nurses and techs, and apparently, your wife) have been wearing makes all day, every day for years and years with no ill effects - except, maybe nearly permanent lines in their faces and across the bridges of their noses.

The third report was a local doctor on a local channel, a pulmonologist and asthma and allergy specialist (who happened to be my son's allergist when he was growing up) who was shown a tape of people who were very vocally complaining about how they can't breath with masks. She pointed out if they can speak normally, and especially if they can raise their voices to complain like that, they can wear a mask all day long without issues. COPD, emphysema and severe asthma sufferers might have problems. But then those folks could not raise their voices if they wanted to and should not be out in public places giving interviews. Instead they should be isolated and/or in quarantine anyway (if not on oxygen already). If their condition was real, they would NOT (and like could not) be at some place where people are gathered and masks are needed.

She did qualify her statement by noting there are lots of fake and substandard masks out there. But if the mask meets the claimed standards, then wearing a mast should not be a problem.

britechguy · Sep 4, 2021

Digerati said:
Refusing to learn the truth is a bit different.

Sorry, but at this point if you breathe the truth has been presented again, and again, and again, and again from virtually any respected source you can name. You have learned the truth, what you have refused to do is acknowledge and accept it. That's a part of willful stupidity.

And refusing to not even seek, per se, but acknowledge the truth just based on what you can observe, and hear reported from many sources, about the world around you is justifiable reason for someone to be very enraged with you (the generic you). I'll quote my own comment on the New York Times article, The Point Is That People in the South Are Suffering:

Stating that someone has culpability for something that happened to them, and extending compassion and a helping hand to them, are not mutually exclusive. I am over the idea that contributing to your own injury (generic you, and generic injury) must be ignored. On a personal level, I certainly do and would. On a societal level, no way. I have every bit as much righteous anger toward regions that are "climate change denial zones" as I do toward regions that are "anti-vax zones [particularly, but not exclusively, Covid-19 vaccination]." The actions (or, I should say, inactions) of those regions do affect ALL of us. We have a right to be angry about this, and speak out against it. At the same time, we absolutely should be helping those who've suffered a disaster, and doing so without personal judgment of any kind. Like I said, these two things are not mutually exclusive.

Digerati said:
So not a child either.

I didn't mean she's under the age of majority, just that she is your child (regardless of her age). I am glad that you recognize (would that many more did) that your adult child is not a child. But I know of very few parents who don't refer to their children or their child even once that child is an adult simply as a relationship marker. Though I will admit that when talking about one I find it's more common to hear "my daughter" or "my son."

A Guy · Sep 5, 2021

If you have some spare time

A Guy

The Great Mask and Vaccination Debate of 2021

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Righteous Dude

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ModeratorHardware ExpertMicrosoft MVP (Ret.)

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Righteous Dude

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ModeratorHardware ExpertMicrosoft MVP (Ret.)

Well-known member

Righteous Dude

Moderator
Hardware Expert
Microsoft MVP (Ret.)

Administrator,
BSOD Academy Instructor,
Security Analyst

Moderator
Hardware Expert
Microsoft MVP (Ret.)

Moderator
Hardware Expert
Microsoft MVP (Ret.)

Administrator,
Microsoft MVP,
Security Analyst

Administrator,
BSOD Academy Instructor,
Security Analyst

Administrator,
BSOD Academy Instructor,
Security Analyst

Moderator
Hardware Expert
Microsoft MVP (Ret.)

Moderator
Hardware Expert
Microsoft MVP (Ret.)

Moderator
Hardware Expert
Microsoft MVP (Ret.)