Temperatures

[Jared]

Hello,

I recently built myself a new computer, which seems to work really well, no issues at all, really.
Now the only thing I have noticed is that my CPU temperatures aren't look great.
I'm running an Intel i7 4790K at 4GHz, the temperatures have been into the 70s (Celsius) when playing a couple of games.

I've heard Intel i7 4th generation CPUs can get pretty hot, mine idles at 40C.
But even when installing an application or sometimes loading a web page, it shoots up into mid to late 60s for a few seconds.



I'm using a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO cooler with Article MX-4 thermal paste, I added a pea sized drop as well, which isn't too much.

I'm not sure whether it's anything to be worried about or not, I'm just a bit concerned. Given the amount of money I've spent on the system (too much).
I do find it odd though, because the case temperatures seem cool, so I don't know whether the readings are wrong.
I actually put the fan on the heatsink the wrong way round, so after I got 76C I put it on the correct side, and when I touched the heatsink, it was a little warm, but not much.

 

[blueelvis]

Congratulations on the PC! Finally you got it. I don't think that you should be very worried about those temperatures much. If you really want to get the lowest temperatures, you would have to go with liquid cooling.

Also, make sure your system cabinet has enough ventilation around it.

 

[Jared]

Thank you.
The tower is on top of the desk, so it has plenty of airflow.
All the other components are really cool, so I don't think it is airflow which is an issue.

 

[Digerati]

Those mostly low 30s are greats. I'm like you and don't like the high 60s, low 70s but how long do they sit there? For a couple seconds or minutes?

If for a couple seconds, I would not worry about that, as long as your computer is remaining stable. It no doubt takes a couple seconds for the fan to ramp up to full speed so if they drop quickly okay. If they sit up there, you need to address case cooling.

The most common mistake with TIM is using too much. The best heat transfer occurs with direct metal-to-metal contact. You only need to fill the microscopic pits and valleys with TIM to push out any insulating air. Any excess is in the way and counterproductive to the most efficient transfer of heat. Some peas can be pretty big. I generally say the same amount as a grain of rice.

The tower is on top of the desk, so it has plenty of airflow.

Being on top of a desk is not the main determining factor for air flow - in fact that really has nothing to do with air flow. It is the fans inside the case. You typically want a good front to back flow through the case and I like at least two large (120mm or larger) case fans (not counting the PSU fan), with front fans pulling cool air in, and rear fans exhausting heated air out. It is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate supply of cool air flowing, the CPU cooler need only toss the CPU's heat into that flow. What do you have for case cooling now?

Also note that ambient (room) temps tend to be cooler nearer the floor and ambient temps have a direct impact on your computer temps. I would consider putting the case on the floor, or sitting it a couple inches off the floor for better dust control.

 

[Jared]

Thanks a lot Bill, I know I can rely on your advice when it comes to hardware.

I believe they stays there for a couple of seconds, not too much longer, but it's difficult to tell with having to alt tab out.
I might have put a bit more on than recommended. I didn't know that you only need a tiny bit, I thought you needed more. Then again, there are a lot of sources that state differently, so it's difficult to find the best one sometimes.

I honestly prefer the computer being on the desk, so I would like to keep it that way. The ambient temperatures are very rarely above 20C, given that this room never has the sun on it, that usually helps.
Just realised... I forgot to plug in the front case fan, which probably explains the problem... :doh::doh:

 

[Digerati]

but it's difficult to tell with having to alt tab out.

Then I recommend the use of a real-time hardware monitor. I use CoreTemp. Speccy now offers a nice system tray component too.

I didn't know that you only need a tiny bit, I thought you needed more.

A common mistake. In the olden days you needed more because (1) machining processes where not as precise to produce perfectly flat surfaces, (2) the materials in the mating surfaces were not a pure so there were more imperfections and (3) there was a need to separate dissimilar metals to prevent galvanic corrosion - but that is not as great a problem today because of anodizing and other anti-corrosion techniques used today.

But sadly, like many tutorials and other guides you see out there, they are based on practices of the past and never updated. And certainly, today's TIMs do have great thermal transfer properties anyway so even if you do apply too much, it "should" not adversely affect the heat transfer process to any great degree.

The fact your temps otherwise sit in the low 30s suggests your TIM is working fine.

Just realised... I forgot to plug in the front case fan, which probably explains the problem...:doh::doh:

:lol: My guess is that will help. While rear fans tend to be more effective than front fans (not sure why, just test after test shows that to be so), a front fan compared to no fan definitely helps (as long as it is drawing cool air in). Of course the down side to a front fan, especially when the case is on your desk is fan noise next to your ear. So hopefully it is a quiet fan.

 

[Jared]

I've added the front fan now, it's looking better.
I get about 60C at max, so far. It went up to 66C for a second or two, but it's never for long.
It tends to idle, usually at 32C - 35C, sometimes 40C.
So I think it's fine.

 

[Digerati]

If it starts sitting up in the high 60s or 70s, you might consider adding another rear fan. My system typically sits in the mid 30s (36°C right now) but occasionally goes into the lower 60s - like during boot, but only for 2 maybe 3 seconds at most. When it starts to go above that, or sits there longer than a couple seconds, that's usually a sign for me to wash my air filters.

 

[Jared]

That's the odd thing though, it doesn't really sit up in those temperatures. It usually ranges from high 40s, 50s or very low 60s.
This is under load.
But I get heat 'spikes' where, even loading a web page in the browser causes the temperature to shoot up to high 60s for a second, maybe 2 at max.
It never stays at that temperature, it drops down straight away.

 

[Digerati]

That's the odd thing though, it doesn't really sit up in those temperatures. It usually ranges from high 40s, 50s or very low 60s.

I call that normal, not odd. Watch your CPU usage. It jumps up and down quickly too. And remember, your CPU gates are flipping back and forth 4 billion times per second so it only takes an instant for temps to jump up and down too.

Also, it takes a couple seconds for your CPU fan to spin up too, because they don't run at full throttle all the time.

 

[bassfisher6522]

With my new build: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 7 mobo, Intel i7 4790K CPU, 16 GB RAM DDR3 2400 mhz, Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler; running the system at default settings it ran at idle 45° to 49° C and 55° at load. Then I did some tweaking: first I set the power mode to balanced in the power options, this keeps the cpu from running at full bore all the time. Then I tweaked the power voltage by dropping the voltage from stock to 1.155 and then tweaked my case fans up 100 RPM's and now my system is cool and quite. Here is screen shot of my temps now.....CPU temp is now at 22°C and it's CPU core temps run from 27°C to 29°C.....

 

[Digerati]

Those are great temps for sure.

You say balanced power mode keeps your CPU from running full bore all the time - I have mine set to High Performance and my i7 on my Gigabyte board is constantly changing its speed, depending on what I am doing, dropping considerably (along with temps) when I am idle. You can also change the minimum processor state in high to something lower too.

I am pretty sure those settings mostly affect notebooks. If you click Tell me more..., you will see High Performance maximizes screen brightness and "might" increase PC performance, then talks about the laptop battery.

I suspect dropping your voltage and increasing fan speeds had the greatest effect.

 

[Jared]

Well, I seem to be getting between 50 - mid 60s under load, not stress testing, of course.
I did get a spike up to 73, but that was for a second. While the temperatures could be lower, I don't think it's any reason to be concerned.
Unless you think they need to be lowered.

 

[Digerati]

I personally don't like my CPU temps to sit above 60°C, but according to the ARK for your Intel i7-4790K, your Tcase maximum is 74.04°C so you still have a fair amount of headroom. If not, you would be experiencing stability problems. You could certainly open the side panel and blast a desk fan in there to see if adding another case fan might help. I also note there are many reports of folks benchmarking that CPU and reaching temps well into the 80s and 90s and still maintain stability - without the CPUs shutting down out of self-protection.

The Tcase temperature is "the maximum temperature allowed at the processor Integrated Heat Spreader (IHS)". Most after market monitors tend to match the Tcase temps fairly accurately (according to Intel).

 

[satrow]

Exceeding the Tcase temperature briefly isn't such a big deal with modern (i) Intel CPUs, throttling isn't usually triggered until ~7°C over Tcase max. Absolute/shutdown temps are likely to be in the 90-100°C range.

Jared, those spikes in temp might be reduced by switching the BIOS CPU cooling from PWM to always on = full fan speed, if you are using PWM now. Of course, this might make it somewhat louder...

 

[Digerati]

Intel CPUs, throttling isn't usually triggered until ~7°C over Tcase max

I was thinking it is even a bit more than that but the point is the same. Exceeding Tcase temps briefly is not big deal.

Does your case support more case fans?

 

[Jared]

Yes, it's the Fractal Design Define R5, it supports numerous ones on the top and bottom. Not sure about another front one.

I'm running a scan at the moment, and it put's the CPU under 40 ~ 60% load ish, and I get between 60C ~ 65C.




I could turn the CPU cooling to full, I mean it's not very loud, AFAIK.
So I might give it a try soon.

 

[Digerati]

I cannot find it now but I recently read a great and extensive report on case fan configuration that showed how front fans helped, but much less than expected and a whole lot less than adding another rear fan. Top (blowhole) fans were quite effective too. And with some cases, a side panel fan was too. Since you like your case on your desk, I sure would go for another rear or top fan to minimize fan noise next to your ear. And if your case supports a side panel fan that is (more or less) centered over the CPU, then you might try it there too.

The larger diameter fan the better because they can move a lot more air while spinning at a lower RPM and noise level.

 

[Jared]

According to the fractal website, you can get:

• 3x 120/140mm fans on the top
• 2x 120/140mm fans on the front (1 included)
• 2x 120/140mm fans on the bottom
• 1x 120/140mm fans on the rear (included)

 

[Digerati]

If me, I would buy a nice 140mm and try it in different places to see what works best.