Replacing a faulty graphics card in a Dell XPS 420

niemiro · Sep 5, 2012

Hello all,

I am trying to get a little bit of extra life out of a Dell XPS420 which I believe has a faulty graphics card (it has begun artifacting quite a lot in almost all games, progressively getting worse until now completely unusable - do you think this is the graphics card, or something worse? A clean install of Windows Vista did not help at all). As far as I can tell, the rest of the PC is in good shape, and is still quite powerful, so it seems a shame to just dump it for parts.

It currently has a single Radeon HD 3870. Do you think there is any chance of replacing this with a very cheap replacement. I don't intend to spend a lot of money on a good graphics card - something right at the lowest end of the scale will do, especially as the PSU is still stock 375W

I was having a look at some of these: http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/all/gpu-amd/radeon-hd-5000-series-pci-e

Do you think any of these would work? I don't know very much about hardware.

Thank you very much.

satrow · Sep 5, 2012

You're not going to be able to run many games with a HD5450 (probably why a high proportion of them are returned) but you'll allow that poor little PSU to breathe easier - the 5450's probably draw 100W less than the 3870 when running hard.

I guess that's a big case on the XPS420, so running a silent version should be fine providing you don't game much on it; I'd buy the cheapest one in stock, the stats are very similar on all of them.

niemiro · Sep 5, 2012

Thank you for your help. Does this mean that a 5450 is actually worse than a 3870 then? What would be a comparable card, just for interest? I am not too keen on making this computer worse if I can help it, as I know that my brother does do a little bit of light gaming on that machine. The 3870 copes fine for his needs, but I am not too keen on making it less powerful, if I can help it. Or is it just more efficient?

Thank you again for your help.

Oh, and about the PCIE version. Those cards are version 2.1. As far as I can tell, the Dell XPS 420 uses an Intel X38 Express chipset, and there seem to be a split opinion as to whether that is a PCIE v1.1 or v2.0 chipset. Goes to check...

niemiro · Sep 5, 2012

Actually, that was quite unrealistic, wasn't it? It seems that the HD6570 is closer to equivalence, although I worry about the power usage of such a card (and PCIE 2.1 which seems not to be perfectly backwards compatible with what is potentially an unsupported PCIE 1.1 motherboard)

satrow · Sep 5, 2012

Keeping the power consumption low enough for that aging PSU would be my main concern; a DDR3 HD6570 should max out around the 45-50W mark for ~£45, the DDR5 version runs 60+W and is from £55 up - if you can find one in stock anywhere! The HD3870 would consume ~105W at full tilt.

The DDR3 versions should perform very close to the 3870, the DDR5 should be noticeably better in some areas.

I don't think there will be any drawbacks running these cards in your older spec. slots, electrically they conform and the bandwidth available should be ample.

niemiro · Sep 5, 2012

Thank you very much for your continued assistance. You have been extremely helpful.

What do you think of the GDDR5 HD6670 1GB? I don't mind spending the extra money if it is better in the long run. Something similar to this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Radeon-Graphics-PCI-Express-Dust-proof/dp/B004XANO24

(I haven't yet fully investigated all options)

The only reason I became concerned about PCIE version was because Wikipedia said

Wikipedia said:
Unfortunately, the increase in power from the slot breaks backward compatibility between PCI Express 2.1 cards and some older motherboards with 1.0/1.0a, but most motherboards with PCI Express 1.1 connectors are provided with a BIOS update by their manufacturers through utilities to support backward compatibility of cards with PCIe 2.1.

Thank you.

Wrench97 · Sep 5, 2012

The 5000/6000 series cards use less power then the 3870, none of the ATI cards below the x770 cards use the PCIe plug your 3870 does.
Also note the 375w Dell supply is more like a 500-550w retail supply since it's OEM and they can design it to fit a specific system the 12v rail amperage is higher and the 5v and 3.3v lower then retail PSU's. Dell used that supply with 8800GTS and they survived :)

The 5750/6750 or the 5670/6670 would be a decent replacement and use less power then the 3870 does now.

Wrench97 · Sep 5, 2012

niemiro said:
Thank you very much for your continued assistance. You have been extremely helpful.

What do you think of the GDDR5 HD6670 1GB? I don't mind spending the extra money if it is better in the long run. Something similar to this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Radeon-Graphics-PCI-Express-Dust-proof/dp/B004XANO24

(I haven't yet fully investigated all options)

The only reason I became concerned about PCIE version was because Wikipedia said

Wikipedia said:

Unfortunately, the increase in power from the slot breaks backward compatibility between PCI Express 2.1 cards and some older motherboards with 1.0/1.0a, but most motherboards with PCI Express 1.1 connectors are provided with a BIOS update by their manufacturers through utilities to support backward compatibility of cards with PCIe 2.1.

Click to expand...

Thank you.

I have a XPS400 with a HD5650 card no issues.

satrow · Sep 5, 2012

From the power section in the wiki article:

PCI Express cards are allowed a maximum power consumption of 25W (×1: 10W for power-up). Low profile cards are limited to 10W (×16 to 25W). PCI Express Graphics 1.0 (PEG) cards may increase power (from slot) to 75W after configuration (3.3V/3A + 12V/5.5A).[9] PCI Express 2.1 increased the power output from an x16 slot to 150W so that some high-performance graphics cards can be run from the slot power alone.[10] Optional connectors add 75W (6-pin) or 150W (8-pin) power for up to 300W total.

So the older slot will self-power cards up to 75W, anything over that requires an external connector as well.

niemiro · Sep 5, 2012

Thank you both very much for your help. You have been extremely helpful. I will probably be getting a GDDR5 HD6670.

According to this webpage: http://www.playtool.com/pages/artifacts/artifacts.html

my artifacts look exactly like pictures 2 and 3 (I get blocks of incorrect colour in certain games, that very distinctive choppy screen in most games, and occasional flashes of clusters single/a few pixel incorrect colour in almost all games, as seen in image 3 on that page). This seems to indicate a video RAM problem, apparently. Do you think it could realistically be anything else, such as the motherboard? Or is it definitely the graphics card, to within reasonable doubt?

Thank you very much.

satrow · Sep 5, 2012

It sounds like a VRAM problem, but it may be that the card needs reflowing to tighten up all the solder joints.

Geeks3D review of an ASUS HD6670:

At idle, the total power consumption of the testbed is 92W and the GPU temperature of the HD 6670 is 32°C. When FurMark is running (1920×1080 fullscreen, burn-in test), the total power consumption reaches 194W while the GPU temperature finds its max value at 64°C.

The power draw of the HD 6670 alone can be approximated with:
(194 – 92) * 0.9 = 92W

where 0.9 is the PSU efficiency factor. For the Corsair AX1200 PSU, this factor is around 0.9 (see this article, there is a graph of the AX1200 efficiency).

The official TDP of the HD 6670 is 66W. Keep in mind that this TDP is the power draw of the board under typical gaming situation. FurMark represents the peak 3D usage. You must have a good quality motherboard because the HD 6670 has no additional power connector. Then all the power required by the HD 6670 comes from the PCI Express slot with is limited to 75W according to the PCI Express specifications. Fortunately, many motherboards can supply more than 75W via the PCI Express slot but it’s something you have to pay attention

So don't benchmark it ^^

Wrench97 · Sep 5, 2012

Mark is a good guy, it's a shame he's stopped updating that site regularly, I used to use it a lot.

niemiro · Sep 5, 2012

Thank you very much again. Can I ask one final question. If it were to draw above 75W (assuming for this example that this is the maximum the motherboard can support), would it fail gracefully (e.g. computer shut down), or would something fry?

Wrench97 · Sep 5, 2012

I believe the card will shut down or at least fall on it's face, But I would like to think the card would not work in the first place.

Wrench97 · Sep 5, 2012

The more I think about this I think it's a problem we'll see in the future, all the current cards are designed to use the 6 pin aux if they draw more then 75w, any manufacturer making cards to fit the new spec only is severely limiting his market to new motherboards only and would be listing it in the system requirements.

niemiro · Sep 5, 2012

Thank you both very much for your swift and extremely useful help. I have ordered it. Will let you know how it goes :)

satrow · Sep 5, 2012

Good to get the brain cells working on this one, maybe we've already seen examples of these potential problems and have missed the real reasons. I'll try to keep an eye open for this in the future.

GZ · Sep 9, 2012

One thing to note... The XPS420 uses a standard ATX 24 pin PSU... You are upgradeable... This is verified...

Also... I would like you to physically examine your board. I have repaired 3 XPS420's and an XPS410 and each of them had the same issue... There are 3 capacitors (I forget the spec) on the board that seem to be prone to failure. One of them is barely visible above the CPU heatsink... You may have to remove the fan shroud to see it. The tel-tale sign is a domed head (should be perfectly flat) and electrolyte leakage. (small brownish spot, usually in the center of the bulge).

niemiro · Sep 9, 2012

GZ said:
One thing to note... The XPS420 uses a standard ATX 24 pin PSU... You are upgradeable... This is verified...

Also... I would like you to physically examine your board. I have repaired 3 XPS420's and an XPS410 and each of them had the same issue... There are 3 capacitors (I forget the spec) on the board that seem to be prone to failure. One of them is barely visible above the CPU heatsink... You may have to remove the fan shroud to see it. The tel-tale sign is a domed head (should be perfectly flat) and electrolyte leakage. (small brownish spot, usually in the center of the bulge).

I didn't know that...thank you. I will check next time I have the computer out.

However, I am really happy at the moment. I replaced the graphics card, and the artifacts seem to have completely stopped :)

I have tested a few of our most intensive games at full settings, and although a bit slow, the graphics card did work for an extended period. There doesn't seem to be a power or temperature issue.

Although getting it in was a bit of a fiddle

The card itself was wider than the 3870, and wouldn't fit in the case. I had to get some saws out and modify some of the preformed plastic to make it fit - but it does fit now!

Anyway, I am really grateful for all your help. The computer is working amazingly well, and I only managed to choose the right card because of your guidance and patience.

Thank you so much again,

Richard

Wrench97 · Sep 9, 2012

There were 3 different part number boards used in the 410/420 I think you'll find only one of those numbers has the failure problem.

Replacing a faulty graphics card in a Dell XPS 420

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