Parts to choose

Jared

Sysnative Staff, BSOD Kernel Dump Expert
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Feb 3, 2014
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I've been looking at a new computer, I don't really have a budget, per se, but I would like to keep the price down where possible.
The GTX 970 seems like a very good card, especially for the price to performance ratio. Now the only thing putting me off is the memory issue that seems to be a problem with some games.

AnandTech | GeForce GTX 970: Correcting The Specs & Exploring Memory Allocation

As a result, I'm willing to pay a bit more to get the GTX 980 instead, but I'm still questioning whether this is a worthy investment.
Considering that some say the memory issue is really bad, and others say how it's nothing to worry about.

Lastly, I'm also considering water cooling, but I don't know whether it's worth the extra ~£60 for it.
Preferably the Corsair h100i water cooler.
Would you recommend sticking to air cooling or going for the water cooling?

Here are the parts I'm looking at:

Read More:
 
Only get a Corsair cooler for watercooling if you don't want to deal with maintenance, that's why it's self-contained. It's self-contained at the cost of some performance vs a regular loop, of course.
 
Unless your planning on a high OC I would stay with air cooling, even the self contained units so signs of losing efficiency over time.

Other then that the build looks good:thumbsup2:
 
Unless your planning on a high OC I would stay with air cooling, even the self contained units so signs of losing efficiency over time.

Other then that the build looks good:thumbsup2:
100% agree! OEM coolers that come with today's AMD and Intel CPUs are excellent, fully capable of adequately cooling even with mild overclocking. That means, I don't recommend using that Hyper 212 EVO Cooler either unless that particular CPU does not come with an OEM supplied cooler - but according to Newegg, it does. And note the Intel warranty expects the use of the OEM cooler so using an aftermarket cooler voids the warranty anyway. So I say stick with the OEM cooler and watch your temps. If they regularly sit above 60°C for longer than a few seconds and your case is already doing it job - then and only then consider alternative cooling - or a room AC! ;)

Remember, it is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate supply of cool air flowing through the case and the CPU fan need only toss the CPU's heat up into that air flow. If you are not doing extreme overclocking and your CPU is still getting hot, then your case is not doing its job and you need to look at adding more case fans for better flow. Note when my CPU temps hit 60°C, that tells me I need to clean my filters!

Another reason why I don't recommend water cooling is they require regular maintenance inspections. This is typically not a problem when the system is new and the novelty has yet to wear off. But sadly, after a year or two and every inspection finds nothing wrong, those required inspections become fewer and farther apart - just when they need to become more frequent as hoses become brittle, fittings become loose. You don't want coolant spewing out all over your motherboard. Nor do you want nasty mold, mildew and other funguses growing inside the water cooler or radiator - which can and does happen if even a tiny bit of air gets inside. :eek4:

I like plain cases with lots of fan options. Cases with fancy façades are distracting and go out of style. And flashing and fancy lights do nothing for performance, add some heat, consume some power and do nothing for performance (worth repeating). After all, I want to pay attention to what's on my monitors so I expect my cases to sit quietly and discreetly off to the side. I don't enjoy breaking down my computers to lug outside to blast out the dust drawn in by all the fans. So I like cases with removable, washable filters so I don't have to lug the computer outside near as often. I also like the front panel I/O ports to be up high so I don't have to get on my hands and knees to plug in a USB device. So far, that Fractal is batting a thousand!

I used to think side windows were just a fancy façade thing but now I want my cases to have them because they let me inspect the interiors for dust build-up and spinning fans without pulling the case out of its desk cubbyhole and removing the side panel. So that is the only downside I see here. Not sure you think $30 more for the Fractal Design Define R4 with Window is worth it, but considering that cost would be spread over the next 5+ years (and my 63 year old knees), I would get it. And note the money you save by sticking with the OEM cooler would pay for it!

Either way, I do want to know what you think of this case as I will be doing a new build for myself soon when W10 goes final.

As for your PSU, Corsair used to be my favorite but they have fallen on their laurels and let quality slip - at least with their lower end lines. See the TechPowerUp Review for details - or the highlights I noted here. The CS-650 warranty is only 3 years. That is short today. It uses a sleeve bearing fan instead of ball. While sleeves are often quieter, they tend to wear out sooner. Its continuous output is rated at 40°C (104°F) instead of 50°C as the better PSUs are. It does not include a MOV on the input side to help protect the PSU from surges off the grid - though it does have a thermistor to protect it from large inrush current. Both devices would be better.

Worse is it failed to meet the ATX required "Voltage Hold-up" time of 16ms minimum, achieving only 11.6ms. That is when it will drop output if input power dips (opposite of a spike) below 90VAC. Not good.

This unit exceeded 50mV ripple on the +12VDC rail at 80% load. While the standard calls for no more than 120mV ripple, most better supplies easily come in under 50mV.

So, IMO, you would be better off with the RM650 as noted in the conclusions of that review. While the RM is also rated at 40°C, it's other specs are better - including the 5 year warranty.

Remember, the PSU is often considered the most critical component in our computers. When spending good money on a new computer, feed it good fuel.
 
Thanks a lot for the input guys.
I'll reply when I get home tonight, I travel around a lot on the Monday.
Bill, I'm wondering if you know much about the gtx 970 issues, and whether they're worth worrying about? Would you recommend the gtx 980? The huge price increase does put me off a bit.
 
I like good graphics performance but I am not a gamer so I don't think I could justify the huge price increase when then 970 is already arguably a great card. In looking at the 970 vs 980 comparisons out there, the 980 is clearly superior, but do you really get noticeably better game play? Or just bragging rights?

I guess it depends on what you have now. If your current system already has gobs of RAM and something comparable to that i7 and the 970, then you don't want to do a lateral move. You definitely want a big step up. But if this new system is already vastly superior to what you have now, then I don't see where you (or I anyway) would have any regrets with the 970.

I think it is important to note that game developers know most gamers don't have the budgets for $300+ graphics cards, let alone $550+ for the 980. So games are programed and developed to provide great game play even with $150 cards or even lessor integrated systems as found on many [so-called] gaming notebooks.
 
I second the recommendation for an Air cooler over the water one.

Also, I'd recommend a XFX or Seasonic branded PSU. Don't bother with any Corsair units.
 
Don't bother with any Corsair units.

I agree on Seasonic, but why not bother with Corsair? Their warranty and RMA process is unmatched. They've bended over backwards for me with RAM/PSU.
 
Unless your planning on a high OC I would stay with air cooling, even the self contained units so signs of losing efficiency over time.

Other then that the build looks good:thumbsup2:
100% agree! OEM coolers that come with today's AMD and Intel CPUs are excellent, fully capable of adequately cooling even with mild overclocking. That means, I don't recommend using that Hyper 212 EVO Cooler either unless that particular CPU does not come with an OEM supplied cooler - but according to Newegg, it does. And note the Intel warranty expects the use of the OEM cooler so using an aftermarket cooler voids the warranty anyway. So I say stick with the OEM cooler and watch your temps. If they regularly sit above 60°C for longer than a few seconds and your case is already doing it job - then and only then consider alternative cooling - or a room AC! ;)

Remember, it is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate supply of cool air flowing through the case and the CPU fan need only toss the CPU's heat up into that air flow. If you are not doing extreme overclocking and your CPU is still getting hot, then your case is not doing its job and you need to look at adding more case fans for better flow. Note when my CPU temps hit 60°C, that tells me I need to clean my filters!

Another reason why I don't recommend water cooling is they require regular maintenance inspections. This is typically not a problem when the system is new and the novelty has yet to wear off. But sadly, after a year or two and every inspection finds nothing wrong, those required inspections become fewer and farther apart - just when they need to become more frequent as hoses become brittle, fittings become loose. You don't want coolant spewing out all over your motherboard. Nor do you want nasty mold, mildew and other funguses growing inside the water cooler or radiator - which can and does happen if even a tiny bit of air gets inside. :eek4:

I like plain cases with lots of fan options. Cases with fancy façades are distracting and go out of style. And flashing and fancy lights do nothing for performance, add some heat, consume some power and do nothing for performance (worth repeating). After all, I want to pay attention to what's on my monitors so I expect my cases to sit quietly and discreetly off to the side. I don't enjoy breaking down my computers to lug outside to blast out the dust drawn in by all the fans. So I like cases with removable, washable filters so I don't have to lug the computer outside near as often. I also like the front panel I/O ports to be up high so I don't have to get on my hands and knees to plug in a USB device. So far, that Fractal is batting a thousand!

I used to think side windows were just a fancy façade thing but now I want my cases to have them because they let me inspect the interiors for dust build-up and spinning fans without pulling the case out of its desk cubbyhole and removing the side panel. So that is the only downside I see here. Not sure you think $30 more for the Fractal Design Define R4 with Window is worth it, but considering that cost would be spread over the next 5+ years (and my 63 year old knees), I would get it. And note the money you save by sticking with the OEM cooler would pay for it!

Either way, I do want to know what you think of this case as I will be doing a new build for myself soon when W10 goes final.

As for your PSU, Corsair used to be my favorite but they have fallen on their laurels and let quality slip - at least with their lower end lines. See the TechPowerUp Review for details - or the highlights I noted here. The CS-650 warranty is only 3 years. That is short today. It uses a sleeve bearing fan instead of ball. While sleeves are often quieter, they tend to wear out sooner. Its continuous output is rated at 40°C (104°F) instead of 50°C as the better PSUs are. It does not include a MOV on the input side to help protect the PSU from surges off the grid - though it does have a thermistor to protect it from large inrush current. Both devices would be better.

Worse is it failed to meet the ATX required "Voltage Hold-up" time of 16ms minimum, achieving only 11.6ms. That is when it will drop output if input power dips (opposite of a spike) below 90VAC. Not good.

This unit exceeded 50mV ripple on the +12VDC rail at 80% load. While the standard calls for no more than 120mV ripple, most better supplies easily come in under 50mV.

So, IMO, you would be better off with the RM650 as noted in the conclusions of that review. While the RM is also rated at 40°C, it's other specs are better - including the 5 year warranty.

Remember, the PSU is often considered the most critical component in our computers. When spending good money on a new computer, feed it good fuel.


Hmm, well from my experience the stock intel CPU cooler has been very loud.
I would prefer a more quiet fan.
But yes, I understand what you mean in regards to airflow being the top contributing factor.

Yeah, thanks a lot for that added information, I think I'll leave water cooling. There's a lot that can go wrong, and knowing me, I won't regularly check it.
I don't really think it's necessary, and I'm not going to overclock very high, if at all.

Yes, I love the look and layout of the Fractal Define r5, it's apparently one of the best, especially with airflow.
I'm not keen on LEDs, I agree they're very distracting, they also seem 'childish', unprofessional and tacky.
My current case has the USB ports on the bottom... They are a nightmare because you can't see them without getting on the floor! Whoever designed them like that needs to be shot.

I prefer the r5, but the r4 still looks really good. I highly recommend fractal over most brands.

I'll purchase an RM instead, thank you very much for that information Bill.


Yes, I do believe the GTX 980 performance is worth it. Especially with the issues of the GTX 970, the 3.5GB VRAM limit, the slow 23GB/s speeds of the low partition causes a lot of problems, from what I've heard.
It certainly isn't a bragging decision, I see no point in such, why should I spend more money just to brag? Like I care what other people think about the computer I get.
 
Patrick, you have to look at who originally made the PSU. Seasonic PSUs are tier 1 even if they are branded as Corsair/XFX/etc.

The CX line is a much lower quality non seasonic made PSU from corsair.

Now days selecting a proper PSU isn't as important as it used to be, in general everyone has stepped there game up. Stick to a well known bran with an 80+ certification and you will be alright.

I will vouch for Bills statement above though that the PSU is not an area to really skimp out in(in quality or quantity).

I don't think the 970 memory issues is nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Right now the 970 is one of if not the best bang for your buck. If you want to stretch for the 980 it is a stronger card but depending on what you are planning it may or not make sense.

Something similar can be said for the CPU cooler, if you are not planning to overclock very much I would still use the 212 over the stock cooler.

If you are planning to OC you may want to step up to one of the AIO closed loop coolers.

A 4790k can run pretty hot if heavily overclocked.
 
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I agree on Seasonic, but why not bother with Corsair?
Some are great! Some not so great. So if you do your homework and research the professional review sites, you can safely pick a good Corsair. Note the Corsair AXi 1500 got a perfect 10 at JonnyGuru. It may still be the only 10.

Jared said:
Hmm, well from my experience the stock intel CPU cooler has been very loud.
Not in many years. And that complaint was with AMD stock coolers too. But both makers have listened to complaints and now provide excellent and quiet OEM coolers with their CPUs.

Remember also that today's CPUs are much more efficient than those of yesteryear. Consequently, they produce much less heat to start with. Plus the heat sinks and OEM TIM are more efficient at transferring the heat. And finally, the fans themselves are better quality and larger. This all means the OEM fans used today are quieter when they do spin, and they don't have to spin as fast to extract the heat because they are larger fans. Larger fans move much air while spinning slower.

Note too, the case is responsible for noise suppression. It is much more likely you will hear the GPU fan over the CPU fan. Or the case or PSU fans since they are all mounted directly to, or right next to the case exterior.

For sure, you can find quieter after market coolers, but don't assume you need one unless you are building a HTPC. And especially not until you try the OEM coolers. I note I have an i7-3770 3.4GHz in this computer pushed to 4.10GHz using the stock cooler and according to CoreTemp, my CPU is sitting at a cool 37°C with ambient (room) temp of 70.1°F. I have to put my head down in front of my computer to hear any fan noise and I am pretty sure that is from the front 140mm fan and actually, that could easily be the "wind" noise the air flow is making as it goes through the front vent and not the fan itself.
 
For reference, I ran the stock cooler with my 4690k when I was bench testing it. The cooler isn't awful and was fairly quiet but did not provide the performance I was after. (I'm not comfortable idling over 50c on a mild overclock.)
 
(I'm not comfortable idling over 50c on a mild overclock.)
Why? That is still "cool". What were you looking for?

The i5-4690K specifications show a TCASE value of 72.72°C. And the datasheet shows a Maximum Junction Temp of 105°C!!!!

I don't even start to think about worrying until my CPU temps jump above 60°C and sit there for more than a few seconds. Then, as I said above, that typically means I need to clean my filters. But even 60°C for your i5 is still not "hot".

No doubt it is absolutely critical to keep our electronics within the "normal operating range". But cooler does not automatically mean better! That is, your CPU will not perform better, be more stable, or last longer if maintained at 40°C instead of 50°. You get bragging rights, but not better performance. Not that there's anything wrong with bragging rights! ;) I am just saying bragging rights don't make for better game play, computer stability, or a longer life expectancy.

Again, if the CPU cooler is not adequately cooling, then I recommend look at pumping more cool room air in there for a greater "flow" of cool air through the case before replacing the CPU cooler.

Either that, or buy one of Intel's or AMD OEM CPUs that don't come with an OEM cooler.
 

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