[SOLVED] CPU/PSU Fan Spin For a Second and Stop on New Build

[writhziden]

I have just built the following setup:

Corsair Carbide Series Black 400R Mid Tower Computer Case (CC-9011011-WW)

Corsair Enthusiast Series 650-Watt 80 Plus Bronze Certified Power Supply Compatible with Core i3, i5, i7 and platforms - TX650 - Tested on old system and works fine

Gigabyte LGA 2011 DDR3 2133 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Motherboard GA-X79-UP4

Intel Core i7-3930K Hexa-Core Processor 3.2 Ghz 12 MB Cache LGA 2011 - BX80619I73930K

2x Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB kit (8GBx2) DDR3-1600 1.5V 240-Pin UDIMM BLS2CP8G3D1609DS1S00 - 32GB total

Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - CPU Cooler with 120mm PWM Fan (RR-212E-20PK-R2)

EVGA GeForce GTX 680 4096 MB GDDR5 Dual Dual-Link DVI/mHDMI/DP/SLI Graphics Card (04G-P4-2686-KR)

Seagate Barracuda 1 TB HDD SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 64MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Bare Drive ST1000DM003​

Had a very strange and frustrating day putting this together. I assembled it all, turned it on, and the PSU/CPU fans both spun up and then stopped at the same time.

Took everything apart and worked from the barest possible hardware: CPU, PSU, GPU, hard drives, Blu-ray drive, and motherboard. Same issue.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I also removed the BIOS CMOS battery to reset it at this stage, and it did not help.

Removed GPU. Same issue.

Added two RAM modules. Same issue.

Removed CPU heatsink and CPU to check pins: all pins look fine, CPU looks fine and installed correctly, etc.

Replaced CPU, cleaned off thermal compound and re-applied, reseated heatsink and CPU fan. Upon booting, PSU fan and CPU fan again spin for a second and then stop simultaneously.

Remove all power to hard drives and Blu-ray drive. Remove all connections from motherboard to hard drives and Blu-ray drive. Same behavior.

Remove CPU Power. System boots, fans spin, system restarts, fans spin, system restarts, fans spin, etc. etc. etc. - Now we're getting somewhere! This is at least different behavior!!

Add CPU power - System boots to Windows. :confused2:


Any ideas at all as to why removing the CPU power and having the system restart multiple times would fix the issue? Or do you think the issue is just hiding now and will return? This is by far the strangest experience I've ever had. The only thing I can figure on is a possible short that somehow I bumped loose when removing or replacing the CPU power...

 

[Wrench97]

Something wasn't right in the process did you try doing a bench test with the board out of the case?

Do you have a 2 wire speaker hooked up so you could hear any error beep codes?

 

[writhziden]

No to both. That was going to be my next step to place the board on a cardboard slab and see if there was a short to the case.

As for the speaker: Unfortunately, the case I bought does not have a motherboard speaker for error codes. Would something like the following be worth buying for future use?

Amazon.com: PC Internal Mini Onboard Speaker: Computers & Accessories​

 

[Digerati]

Frankly, I am really perturbed about this. Years ago, all cases came with a "case speaker" used to "sound" error beep codes. Then, more and more motherboards started to integrate tiny piezoelectric "button" speakers on their boards. So case makers, seeing an opportunity to save a couple pennies, stopped including them with their cases.

But now I am seeing more and more motherboards (including my new Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H) without integrated speakers leaving users in the lurch.

Yes, that mini onboard speaker will work but I might suggest you rummage through any old cases you have laying around and see if you can't pull one out of there. If you order on line, unless you order something else with this to qualify for free shipping, you are going to end up paying over $10 for a $.25 speaker.

Add CPU power - System boots to Windows.
...do you think the issue is just hiding now and will return?

My "guess" (if no foreign objects under the board) is you had a loose connection - assuming now, you have all your devices connected (data and power) and it still works.

Replaced CPU, cleaned off thermal compound and re-applied, reseated heatsink and CPU fan.

Was that the OEM cooler or the aftermarket cooler? Do note you void your Intel warranty using an aftermarket cooler on retail "boxed" CPUs that come with OEM supplied coolers. Of course, that is not a concern for many, but I do note motherboard designers cluster heat sensitive devices around the CPU socket so they too can take advantage of the expected downward firing OEM CPU fan. Side firing fans may not provide expected cooling to those sensitive motherboard components.

Since cooling is the responsibility of the case, and the CPU fan need only toss CPU heat into the cool-air flow through the case, I would suggest you use the OEM cooler - at least until you are certain this problem has been resolved. OEM coolers today are excellent coolers - fully capable of cooling the CPUs they come with, even with mild to moderate overclocking - and without voiding the warranty. Note too that only OEM coolers cover replacement of the CPU for the entire 3 years of the CPU warranty. And OEM coolers are warrantied for 3 years while most aftermarket coolers are for less. That CoolerMaster, for example, is only warrantied for 2 years, and no way CoolerMaster will cover damage to the CPU, in the [admittedly rare] event damage occurs.

Again, many enthusiasts don't care about CPU warranties, and that's fine as long as we understand the consequences. But I do want to reiterate that OEM coolers today can hold their own, and any perception that they are inferior or incapable coolers should be dismissed as false.

The only time I don't use OEM coolers in any of my builds is when building passive (no fans) cooling for PCs to be integrated into home theater systems - where any fan noise is unacceptable.

***

BTW, I like your way of thinking. I too like Gigabyte and with my new Gigabyte board I bought a Corsair Carbide 300R case (looked at the 400 but I am not into fancy lights on my cases and I did not need that much extra space. I typically go for Antec cases as I have never been disappointed with them but I thought I would try a Corsair this time - considering their reputation for quality RAM and PSUs. I like the Corsair case, but frankly, the fit and finish is not up Antec standards. I need three hands and a strategically placed tongue to ensure all the panel keys line up correctly to ensure the right side (back of the motherboard) panel cover slides in exactly right. And some of the vent covers are secured in place by loosely bent metal tabs. My top vent was loose and wiggled around until I bent those tabs over a bit more. And concerning the tabs, a couple had jagged edges that could tear unsuspecting knuckles - minor quibbles, but still. Nice looking case however (though I expect a case to sit discretely off to the side and NOT draw attention to itself - so looks are somewhat secondary for me), with lots and lots of large (120 - 140mm) fan options. :)

And since I put my towers near the floor, the front-top power/reset buttons, audio and USB 3.0 ports means I don't have to crawl on the floor to plug in a memory stick! :)

 

[writhziden]

System is running great now.

Is the lighting the only difference between the 300R and the 400R? I'm only curious; it is not a big deal to me either way as I am happy with the case, airflow, and lighting. I also had no problems with the sliding panels on this or the case we put together at work which was also a 400R.

The CPU comes with no OEM cooler, so I am fairly sure my warranty is not subject to using an aftermarket cooler in this regard. Reading the warranty booklet also has no clauses involving fans, only changing voltages and frequencies beyond what Intel intended, e.g. overclocking. Temperatures run between 38°C and 58°C at idle and under load respectively. Not the best, but about what I'd expect with air cooling and the thermal paste application being a little under par from what I normally do due to all the hardware troubleshooting. It's still well under the 72°C (66.8°C + ~5°C) temperature recommended by Intel with a safety factor included for case temperature versus core temperatures. I will likely re-apply the thermal compound in the near future to get the temperatures down; that will have to be a project for next weekend or the following weekend (and no, I won't forget).

 

[Tekno Venus]

Hey Mike,

The 300R and 400R have quite different designs, but are fairly similar cases. The 400r is, surprisingly, the model up from the 300r and has a few extra features. They also have a different design. The 400R has an all mesh front, whereas the 300R does not. The 400R comes with more 5.25" drive bays (4 instead of 3).

The 300R --> Carbide Series® 300R Compact PC Gaming Case

The 400R --> Carbide Series® 400R Mid-Tower Case - Carbide Series - Cases

As Bill rightly said, the front two 120mm fans in the 400R have lights whereas the 300R's front fans do not have lights. I also think the 300R is slightly smaller than the 400R

The reason I know all this is that I am saving up myself for a build. I was planning to use a 300R, then a 400R but have settled for now with a Corsair Obsidian 500D since it's a far quieter case. I may post my build idea in another thread...

Stephen

P.S - Digerati, I was unaware that using an aftermarket cooler will void the warranty of a CPU. Thanks for the information, but I still may use an aftermarket cooler in my planned system. ;-)

 

[Digerati]

The CPU comes with no OEM cooler, so I am fairly sure my warranty is not subject to using an aftermarket cooler in this regard.

No problem then. For OEM CPUs, you have not choice but to provide your own cooler. Do note, however, that CPUs that come without coolers are only warrantied for 1 year, not 3.

Temperatures run between 38°C and 58°C at idle and under load respectively. Not the best, but about what I'd expect with air cooling

Yeah, those are good. I only start to get a bit nervous when CPU temps hit, and stay above 60°C.

As for your TIM (thermal interface materials) depending the type used, you can achieve a couple to several degrees drop after the TIM has had a few days (heat up and cool down cycles) to cure.

Compare 300 vs 400 - I note yours provides for a couple more drives and comes with 3 120mm fans, mine comes with 2 fans (120 and 140mm) but has room for many more. Oddly, though the 400 is a bit bigger, the 300 is a tiny bit heavier. ??? And the 300 will support a much large (longer) graphics card.

 

[Wrench97]

Rummaging old cases is where I find speakers also, you have to watch though "newer" old PC's have motherboard speakers not case speakers or none at all.

 

[Digerati]

P.S - Digerati, I was unaware that using an aftermarket cooler will void the warranty of a CPU. Thanks for the information, but I still may use an aftermarket cooler in my planned system. ;-)

It has actually been that policy forever and most users totally ignore it. And for that matter, even Intel and AMD typically ignore it. But not always. I have seen cases where AMD and Intel refused to replace CPUs - though in each case, the users had a "history" of seeking CPU replacements. Note most CPU failures are cause by ESD damage - poor handling and ESD control procedures by the user and not from heat (as most CPUs have built in thermal protection).

But to be sure, the policies are there and can be viewed in the warranty packets that come with our CPUs (or online here and here). Note AMD is crystal clear,

"This Limited Warranty shall be null and void if the AMD microprocessor which is the subject of this Limited Warranty is used with any heatsink/fan other than the one provided herewith."

But again, that only applies to CPUs that come packaged with an OEM cooler.

The biggest concern I have with this issue is helpers telling users to use an aftermarket cooler because (1) OEMs are no good and (2) without informing the OP of the consequences. OEM coolers are good and users need all the information to make an informed decision. You would be surprise how often I get backlash from other helpers telling me users don't need to know that information.

The 400r is, surprisingly, the model up from the 300r and has a few extra features.

Did you mean to say, "not surprisingly"? I ask because the 400 costs more and is larger, therefore I would expect it to be the model "up", with more features. I also note the 300 has a mesh front too - although the three 5.25 inch bay covers are solid.

you have to watch though "newer" old PC's have motherboard speakers not case speakers or none at all.

That's true - but if the old motherboard is to be discarded, you can remove the integrated speaker, attach a couple leads to it, and use that - if handy with soldering iron - and nothing much else to do with your life!

 

[Tekno Venus]

The 400r is, surprisingly, the model up from the 300r and has a few extra features.

Did you mean to say, "not surprisingly"? I ask because the 400 costs more and is larger, therefore I would expect it to be the model "up", with more features. I also note the 300 has a mesh front too - although the three 5.25 inch bay covers are solid.

You're right, that was a typo on my part! I did mean to say "not surprisingly". It is indeed the model up. The 300R does have a mesh grill over the fan covers only whereas the whole front panel of the 400R is made of the mesh. This improves airflow but I have a feeling it will let more dust into the case. I can't remember if the drive may covers have dust filters in the 400R.

And thanks for the extra info regarding the warranty, it's appreciated. :)

 

[Digerati]

Certainly more vents will allow more dust to be drawn in and that can be a problem. But the vent holes are small, so hopefully they will clog up instead of letting all the dust through to create a nice (?) heat trapping blanket over everything. A clogged vent can easily be cleaned without tearing down the computer.

I bought the 300 in part because it has a easy to clean removable filter on the bottom. But that is another area I am a bit disappointed with too. It is easy to remove and clean, but only from the back of the case and that is not near as convenient as filters that can easily be removed from the front.

 

[Corrine]

That's true - but if the old motherboard is to be discarded, you can remove the integrated speaker, attach a couple leads to it, and use that - if handy with soldering iron - and nothing much else to do with your life!

Then definitely not something jcgriff2 should attempt :hysterical:

 

[writhziden]

Interesting; another Gigabyte user with nearly the same setup as mine had problems until updating the BIOS to the beta BIOS version (which I am avoiding since it is a beta and I no longer have any problems):

GA-X79-UP4 mobo, no boot, possible incompatiable ram.​

Any chance my BIOS needed a chance to reset itself with the CPU power disconnected before it picked it up properly? I noticed when it booted the next time, I received a CMOS error that asked if I wanted to reset.

 

[Wrench97]

No but it is possible that you caused a CMOS clear somehow in the process of unhooking and restarting.

 

[writhziden]

I know that there is a software/hardware interface with the BIOS involving peripherals. I was thinking that might also include the CPU. That interface is reset when we ask users to hold down the power button for 30 seconds after removing all power supplies (AC power on desktops/AC power and battery on laptops). When the system starts with those devices removed, it allows for a peripheral interface reset, and I was thinking the CPU power removal might be similar to removing the peripheral. Just a hypothesis that I thought I'd ask about. The reason I was thinking this was the case instead of a CMOS clear is I had removed the CMOS battery in an attempt to clear it and still had problems afterward.

I do now wonder if there is some possible problem with that board and the i7-3930k during initial startup, though I would expect to see more posts about it out there if that was the case. Not sure how many people have the GA-X79-UP4 and i7-3930k. I may call Gigabyte tomorrow to see what their take is on this. It's also possible my board just arrived in a bad BIOS state and needed the CMOS clear you mention or the peripheral reset I hypothesized about.

 

[Wrench97]

In theory the bios should have been clear as in never had any discovered settings stored when you received it, it'll be interesting to see what Gigabyte has to say but my money would be on ram settings discovery over CPU.

 

[Digerati]

Any chance my BIOS needed a chance to reset itself with the CPU power disconnected before it picked it up properly? I noticed when it booted the next time, I received a CMOS error that asked if I wanted to reset.

In theory the bios should have been clear as in never had any discovered settings stored when you received it

I am not sure the BIOS on a brand new board is clear from the factory as each board does go through some (admittedly minimal) testing before leaving the factory. I note on almost every new board I have worked with (I say "almost" but it may be all), the date and time is already set at the factory - typically for some timezone in China - but my point is, it has been set "AND SAVED" and therefore a checksum was set and stored in the CMOS memory module.

As such, next boot (once parts are installed) would indeed have a checksum error as the new hardware results in a new checksum, which of course, no longer matches the checksum saved in the BIOS. Whether the system halts on a checksum error or simply recalculates and sets a new checksum depends on how many and which changes came at once and how the BIOS handles them. In ANY event, selecting Saving and Exit from the BIOS Setup Menu should set the new checksum so any subsequent boots should be error free. Of course, theory and real-world don't always see eye-to-eye.

Also, while the vast majority of my builds are with Gigabyte boards (because I really like them) I have also recently used ASUS and Intel boards (again date and time already set). And regardless if Gigabyte, Intel or ASUS, there typically is a new BIOS update waiting on the website (at least for the recently released to market boards). So while not a fan of updating BIOS just because a new update is out there, I generally do make sure the BIOS is updated on all new builds with new boards to ensure any new RAM or CPUs are properly supported.

I had removed the CMOS battery in an attempt to clear it and still had problems afterward.

Well, if you left it out long enough (15 seconds or so is plenty) it should have cleared. Do note too that all Gigabyte boards have a reset jumper or switch and they should really be used instead of pulling the CMOS battery as they short the CMOS module's "holding" voltage to ground instantly and without doubt resetting the BIOS with less chance of ESD damage, or damage from dropping a charged battery on the motherboard.

For sure, one of the reasons I really like Gigabyte is the way they have handled RMAs for me. They even replaced a 4 year old board with leaky caps at no cost (warranty was for 3 years) or hassle. If this board keeps giving you hassles, I would not hesitate to return it.

 

[writhziden]

In theory the bios should have been clear as in never had any discovered settings stored when you received it, it'll be interesting to see what Gigabyte has to say but my money would be on ram settings discovery over CPU.

Gigabyte agreed with you about RAM settings likely needing to be reset (which it may have done through the steps I took). :-}

Any chance my BIOS needed a chance to reset itself with the CPU power disconnected before it picked it up properly? I noticed when it booted the next time, I received a CMOS error that asked if I wanted to reset.

In theory the bios should have been clear as in never had any discovered settings stored when you received it

I am not sure the BIOS on a brand new board is clear from the factory as each board does go through some (admittedly minimal) testing before leaving the factory. I note on almost every new board I have worked with (I say "almost" but it may be all), the date and time is already set at the factory - typically for some timezone in China - but my point is, it has been set "AND SAVED" and therefore a checksum was set and stored in the CMOS memory module.

As such, next boot (once parts are installed) would indeed have a checksum error as the new hardware results in a new checksum, which of course, no longer matches the checksum saved in the BIOS. Whether the system halts on a checksum error or simply recalculates and sets a new checksum depends on how many and which changes came at once and how the BIOS handles them. In ANY event, selecting Saving and Exit from the BIOS Setup Menu should set the new checksum so any subsequent boots should be error free. Of course, theory and real-world don't always see eye-to-eye.

Also, while the vast majority of my builds are with Gigabyte boards (because I really like them) I have also recently used ASUS and Intel boards (again date and time already set). And regardless if Gigabyte, Intel or ASUS, there typically is a new BIOS update waiting on the website (at least for the recently released to market boards). So while not a fan of updating BIOS just because a new update is out there, I generally do make sure the BIOS is updated on all new builds with new boards to ensure any new RAM or CPUs are properly supported.

The only BIOS update available was a Beta. Gigabyte's support representative said that F2 should be fine and there is no reason to install the Beta version for my board and processor, which I agreed with since I am no longer experiencing any problems.

I had removed the CMOS battery in an attempt to clear it and still had problems afterward.

Well, if you left it out long enough (15 seconds or so is plenty) it should have cleared. Do note too that all Gigabyte boards have a reset jumper or switch and they should really be used instead of pulling the CMOS battery as they short the CMOS module's "holding" voltage to ground instantly and without doubt resetting the BIOS with less chance of ESD damage, or damage from dropping a charged battery on the motherboard.

Thanks. I had actually looked for the jumper but could not find it. I have found it now, but no harm no foul. :-} I'll be more careful in the future and use the jumper.

 

[Wrench97]

Also note that even with the battery removed if the PSU was still connected and the switch was on I have seen the 5vsb cause it to hold cmos data.

 

[writhziden]

Thanks. I never touch the inside of the machine without first disconnecting power, switching the PSU switch to off, and draining power by holding down the power button for 30 seconds. I also use an ant-static work area. I'm very careful with electronics, and now I have one more precaution with the CMOS jumper to remember for future desktop work. :-}

Hopefully I did not cause any damage with the CMOS battery reset; I was very diligent about removing it straight out and straight back in to minimize any contact that might cause a surge, but since those are not detectable by touch or by eye, I can't be 100% sure. At least if problems crop up down the line, I'll have an idea of what might have caused them. That of course is the other annoyance about such surges: it can take months to manifest in an actual hardware fault as the transistors slowly fail due to minimal damage. I'm fairly sure I won't see any problems; most PC builders are a lot less careful than I am and rarely have problems. I'm still holding off at least a month before I mark this thread solved just in case.