The GM Chevy Bolt - Electric Car - can "Burst into Flames" with no Catalyst

[jcgriff2]

To recap the Chevy Bolt's history


GM's Chevy Bolt list of Do's and Don'ts -

2020 - 60,000 Bolts recalled by GM for the potential to "burst into flames"

July 2021 - Bolt fires -

3 weeks ago - GM recalls ALL Chevy Bolts ever made -

- GM Recalls All Chevrolet Bolts Due to Fire Concerns

Today - GM tells Bolt owners "Do not park the car within 50 feet of another car or structure -- or it may also go up in flames" -

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I have a hard time believing that the GM Chevy Bolt is the only EV with problems of non-catalyst spontaneous fire combustion. I have not looked up other EVs yet to check.

GM is blaming battery manufacturer LG Chem (South Korea) and I imagine that GM will sue LG to recover at least $1.8 Billion -- the current GM estimate to replace battery packs/batteries in all GM Chevy Bolts ever made. The figure was only $1 billion a week or two ago.

Why are these EV car batteries not being produced in the United States?

GM confirmed that the fires happen when there are two defects present in the LG Chem batteries that power the Bolt. On Friday, the company specified that the defects are a torn anode tab and a folded separator in the cell. It also shared that the defects are in cells made at multiple plants

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Chevrolet Bolt EV Sales Numbers​

Here you will find Chevrolet Bolt EV sales numbers.

Sales Results - Brazil - Bolt EV​

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Total
2021	4	10	1	4	17	43	16	37					132
2020	4	0	44	12	9	13	11	2	3	4	3	3	108
2019					1	0	1	0	0	0	4	1	7
2017												0	0

Sales Results - Canada - Bolt EV​

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Total
2021	538	538	538	624	624	624							3,485
2020	323	323	323	233	233	233	365	365	365	421	421	421	4,025
2019	142	142	142	430	430	430	383	383	383	395	395	395	4,050
2018	187	180	248	117	395	306	99	119	293	218	246	220	2,628
2017	6	86	241	187	177	169	117	82	227	371	350	109	2,122

*** This manufacturer is now publishing only quarterly numbers for this market. Monthly figures may be averages.​

Sales Results - Mexico - Bolt EV​

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Total
2021		2	9	1	1	3	2	0					18
2020	5	2	6	0	1	1	1	2	1	7	4	8	38
2019	3	4	3	1	3	2	4	3	2	2	0	0	27
2018			1	4	1	2	2	4	1	2	2	1	20
2017							3	2		5		0	10

Sales Results - South Korea - Bolt EV​

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Total
2021		43	132	133	307	327	69	5					1,016
2020	11	325	430	308	82	129	72	41	64	54	36	27	1,579
2019	0		650	452	327	250	293	212	179	640	824	344	4,171
2018	0	5	5	322	1,027	1,621	872	631	70	17	3	7	4,580
2017				121	127	39	55	57	24	41	82	24	570

Sales Results - USA - Bolt EV​

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Total
2021	3,008	3,008	3,008	3,619	3,619	3,619							19,882
2020	1,958	1,958	1,958	833	833	833	1,894	1,894	1,894	2,234	2,234	2,234	20,754
2019	1,439	1,439	1,439	1,322	1,322	1,322	1,610	1,610	1,610	1,102	1,102	1,102	16,418
2018	1,177	1,424	1,774	1,161	1,161	1,161	1,316	1,316	1,316	2,071	2,071	2,071	18,019
2017	1,162	952	978	1,292	1,566	1,642	1,971	2,107	2,632	2,781	2,987	3,227	23,297
2016												579	579

*** This manufacturer is now publishing only quarterly numbers for this market.​

I personally have nothing against EVs but really do not believe the current plan that a full 1/2 of the ~300 million cars on the roads today in the United States will be replaced by EVs by the year 2030. Are they just going to smash and dispose of (bury in landfills) 150 million road-worthy gasoline cars, many of which will still have plenty of life left in them past 2030? What if the 2030 150 million EV car target is missed? Will we somehow be forced?

In my humble opinion, I just do not think that we have done enough research and homework on battery technology to guarantee reliability and safety. The first battery car came out about 140 years ago in ~1880 (est), but internal combustion engines quickly took over, and work on better battery technology for cars all but ceased.

AFAIK right now, the EVs that have "burst into flames" have been stationary; not moving. But what happens when that awful day comes when dad and mom are in the front of their EV and their 3 kids are in the back buckled into car seats when the batteries suddenly burst into flames (batteries are usually located either behind the back seat or under the back seat) based on my limited reading on the topic so far.

So the family of 5 is on the Interstate Highway at 75 mph when a fire breaks out in the back and possibly the driver may not notice the fire because the flames are being sucked out of the back somehow. Who knows when the fire will be noticed? Even if it is noticed, the driver needs to get over and stop immediately, get a fire extinguisher from somewhere, put the fire out, and save the kids - if they can get them out of the car seats with the plastic buckles that by now have likely melted, making that task nearly impossible.

I don't know -- what the hell is the sudden rush for 50% EVs by 2030, then 100% EVs by 2050 (or sooner) and to destroy all gas and diesel-powered cars and light trucks?

Lastly, they also want ALL fossil fuel electricity generating stations closed. That only leaves one method to generate all of the vast amounts of electricity the US needs for vehicles, home heating, other appliances --- Nuclear Power. Where will all of the nuclear waste and spent fuel rods go?

I thought solar panels and wind farms were supposed to meet our future power needs. :0

 

[Digerati]

I personally have nothing against EVs but really do not believe the current plan that a full 1/2 of the ~300 million cars on the roads today in the United States will be replaced by EVs by the year 2030. Are they just going to smash and dispose of (bury in landfills) 150 million road-worthy gasoline cars, many of which will still have plenty of life left in them past 2030? What if the 2030 150 million EV car target is missed? Will we somehow be forced?

In my humble opinion, I just do not think that we have done enough research and homework on battery technology to guarantee reliability and safety. The first battery car came out about 140 years ago in ~1880 (est), but internal combustion engines quickly took over, and work on better battery technology for cars all but ceased.

I personally have a lot of reservations about this plan too.

I wholeheartedly agree we (humankind) desperately and urgently need to ween ourselves from burning fossil fuels. But I too feel we are getting ahead of ourselves.

For example, the manufacturing process to make the batteries for EVs creates more pollution than the EVs will eliminate during their expected lifespan. This will continue until battery factories stop burning fossil fuels - such as coal - to power those factories.

I also am not convinced we have figured out how to properly and safely recycle and disposed of all the used EV batteries after they wear out.

And I know that firefighters, when responding to accidents involving EVs, hate them.

I suspect (though really its more a guess and wishful thinking) these spontaneous fire and explosion problems will be resolved - in large part with better quality control (including proper management oversight and safety regulations WITH rigorous inspections) during the manufacturing process of the batteries themselves, and the raw materials that go into them.

In the meantime, we need to get back to improving fuel efficiency of gas and diesel burning vehicles to reduce (and eventually eliminate) our dependency on fossil fuels. This will give us, and this little blue marble, more time to sort out all these Li-Ion and EV battery issues, reverse the global warming trend and recover from the damage already done - I hope.

 

[Corday]

Tesla also has had a disproportionate number of battery fires. Here in South Carolina it costs $120 more every other year to renew plates for an EV since there is a need to make up for lost gas tax revenue. There are only 4,300 EVs in our state.

 

[Gary R]

Saw a program on the TV over here recently .... https://www.channel4.com/programmes/guy-martin-the-worlds-fastest-electric-car .... and in one section of that program it showed just how difficult it was to extinguish an EV battery fire.

 

[xrobwx71]

GM should simply call Elon Musk, he is the Zefram Cochran of our time.

 

[Digerati]

GM should simply call Elon Musk, he is the Zefram Cochran of our time.

Except Musk is in trouble lately because his cars like to run into emergency vehicles.

Plus, Musk didn't "invent" the electric car nor was he the first to make them.

Cochran, of course, wasn't first either - but he was the first human to do so.

 

[britechguy]

just how difficult it was to extinguish an EV battery fire.

Well, it's not just an EV battery, it's lithium batteries in general. Admittedly, the "worst case scenario" other than a factory fire where these are produced is an EV crash, but even computer and smartphone battery fires are pretty intense and difficult to extinguish (for what they are).

The higher the energy storage capacity of any battery the worse things are if uncontrolled release of said energy occurs, and the most common thing that causes that is a fire of some sort, very often with outgassing of a bad cell as the initial source of fuel.

I can't recall exactly when I saw it, but it was a fairly recent news program or documentary discussing the research going on to make what amounts to a "self-containing" battery when it comes to fire.

The thing with the Bolt is clearly a manufacturing defect (and not GMs, in this specific case). And battery technology is currently in its infancy as far as EV and other high capacity batteries go.

 

[Corday]

Just like the occupants use seat belts, maybe the battery pack needs what race cars have. DuPont FE-36 triggered by a heat sensor serves as a great fire suppressant.

 

[britechguy]

DuPont FE-36 triggered by a heat sensor serves as a great fire suppressant.

The question is whether such is "economically feasible" in a mass-produced vehicle.

I'm not saying it is, or it isn't, but history shows that one of the last things most automobile buyers are willing to pay more for is safety features. That's become less so in recent decades, but only after certain safety technologies have "proven their worth" to the public when used to a lesser extent. Airbags, which used to be front-only, are a perfect example of something that became more "in demand" for side-curtain and the like once the proof of concept had been accepted by the public at large.

Just like most people probably figure they'll never have a gas/petrol tank fire/explosion on their car, they probably have the same attitude at this time toward EV batteries. On the whole, I'd say they're kinda correct. Still, fire suppression or prevention is something that needs to be improved in EV batteries.

 

[Gary R]

Interesting articles .... Fire protection of electric and hybrid vehicles .... (PDF) A Review of Battery Fires in Electric Vehicles

 

[Digerati]

but only after certain safety technologies have "proven their worth" to the public when used to a lesser extent.

Or when the costs of the ensuing lawsuits against the manufacturers finally outweigh the profits when doing nothing.

 

[britechguy]

@Digerati,

Absolutely true. But that's a case of having one's hand forced. I think we're all aware of things such as the "Exploding Pinto" as well as the current situation with the Bolt. But even there, there's a primary difference in that Ford knew, and knew well, about the Pinto's problems for a very long period of time and ignored them. Of course, that era was also far less litigious than the one we live in now.

There have been plenty of instances of that, but also plenty of instances of "slow adoption" on the consumer end of things, too. They don't see an adequate "value for dollar" in the cost of certain safety features, particularly new ones.

The two situations are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Wrench97]

Both the Chevrolet Volt and the Ford Focus Electric initially used cells manufactured in Korea by parent LG Chem[18][19] and then later switched to cells produced in LG Chem Michigan's Holland plant once it opened.

The Bolt and current Volt batteries are made in Holland Michigan, however GM is recalling all Bolts and Volts so it sounds like this is a design issue not a manufacturing issue. I have not heard a peep about the Fords.

Edit
Apparently Hyundai had a previous issue with the LG batteries made in Korea.> GM says Chevy Bolt EV battery production has resumed, defect leading to fire risk is fixed And LG now says the issue is fixed and they are making batteries again.

 

[Digerati]

I remember my first vehicle, a 1960 F100 pickup. The gas tank was inside the cab, behind the seat. Someone finally figured out that was not a good place for the gas tank, so they moved them outside to the bed, typically between the frame.

On cars, they are in back, not in the passenger compartment, typically under the trunk. Even with the old Ford Pintos and their exploding gas tanks, very few deaths occurred due to ruptured tanks. And in fact, the numbers were in line with other cars. Bad PR killed the Pinto, not exploding gas tanks. But that's for another discussion.

Where is the battery on EVs? Right under our feet. I'm not comfortable with that - though I suppose that low center of gravity makes fast cornering a bit more fun.

 

[britechguy]

It really depends on the maker, and market, as far as gas tank placement over time. I still have a car (1979) where the gas tank is directly behind the rear seat, while its 1978 model year for a different market (the 79 is US market) was way back beneath the trunk.

Admittedly, gas tank fires are relatively rare. They seem to be significantly less frequent than engine compartment fires (and given what can happen when fuel starts spraying around in the event of a leak in a hot engine compartment, that's no surprise). But in the grand scheme of things, EV fires from batteries are relatively rare, too.

This is one of those cases, and only one of many, where a clear-eyed risk assessment goes a long way toward making a "good decision." I certainly am not afraid of most EVs from the perspective of fire in normal use. And that even includes the Bolt once the replacements of the current battery packs is made. The Volt never seemed to have this issue, either. There are at least two of them I see running around regularly here in the Shenandoah Valley, but they're far from common.

The Corvair, much like the Pinto, was the victim of bad PR from Ralph Nader in Unsafe at Any Speed. Later analysis didn't echo his opinion, but it did show that a lot of cars of the era were equally unsafe, or mighty close. But it's hard for me to mourn the passing of either of those cars, as neither was a particularly good car and both, the Pinto in particular, had huge production runs before their respective demises. But that Nader book was very well researched, and made the point that I did earlier in that most manufacturers of cars were slow to adopt features known to significantly improve safety, even relatively low-cost ones, if they couldn't find a way to make them a selling point.

 

[Corday]

Actually, the final version of the Corvair was a good car, but too late.

 

[Corday]

LG has a fix for the battery problem

 

[britechguy]

but too late.

When it comes to market timing, the old saying, "Better late than never," is absolutely untrue!

And when it comes to cars, major appliances, etc., a sullied reputation generally outlasts, often by decades, what brought it into being to begin with. In the land of automobiles, Jaguar is a perfect example. It deserved all of its "more time in the shop than on the road" reputation for all of my life up through the point where Ford acquired it and started putting real money into it. Their handiwork began to show itself in 1995 with a vastly improved car and by 1999 there was not a single Lucas anything in the cars, and they were solid (I had a 1999 XJ8L for quite a few years, and sold that to a friend who drove it for several more until its unfortunate demise via an accident.).

The only automobile maker I can think of who "beat the deserved bad rap" relatively quickly was Hyundai. I had a dear friend who purchased a first generation Sonata and it was a simply horrible car. Their other models were no better, and they developed an almost Yugo-like reputation early on. But they learned, and very quickly, how to fix the problems and the "stink of the early days" blew away more rapidly than I ever would have expected. And look at them now. There is an exception to every rule, and Hyundai's recovery from a crap early track record is that exception.

 

[Wrench97]

Early Fords and many others the gas tank was in the cowl under the windshield, from there it gravity fed to the motor.