Something I would advise with you

RepairandRestore

RepairandRestore

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Hello all,

I have done a procedure for my technical team I really need to get your opinion on that.

Critics are more than welcome and I`ll be happy to know if my opinion is wrong.

There are a couple of things you might need to know when you are troubleshooting Windows 10.
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The problem caused from Windows 10 is mainly occurring when the migration was depleted with all of the Windows drivers and additional software.


The main upgrade Microsoft managed to achieve in Windows 10 is all of the drivers will be automatically installed via updates apart of the NVIDIA drivers.


However the old versions of drivers with the additional software to support them can cause total chaos.


When you are troubleshooting Windows 10 you need to be aware of this problem and try to remove all of the outdated drivers not allowing the new version of drivers to be installed.


As a matter of fact, most of the permission holders are again windows services.


To increase the performance of Windows 10 you need to remove all of the working services, and in the rare cases of software not registering licenses without services, to remove the software and install it again afterwards.


The purpose of this is to create a new pack of registry and services permission for this software.


The final line is to remove all of the drivers and additional software as services to increase the performance of the computer.


Any 3rd party AV software, Driver optimizer and boosting software must be removed immediately.


If the client still insists to keep them it is mandatory to completely remove the software and install it over again.


Once you are ready be sure you will remove the Windows.old so no permission or settings will be inherited from there.


Bear in mind in 90% of the cases this will solve the problem excluding the severely infected machines.


This could be applied with the old version of Windows, too.


Many thanks,
Andy
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Again this is something I personally created and I`ll take no offence of criticism.
Actually I`ll be really happy to have any feedback on this.

Many thanks for your consideration and effort reading this.
 
Hi Andy

Seems like a reasonable list. I can see that you likely prefer "clean installs" over upgrades :)

The problem that I generally have: is getting anyone to read the advice we give them.

Since it's a Friday: have a good weekend!
 
migration was depleted
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I don't know what that means. Did you mean deployed? I don't really know what this document is for. And it has been my experience the scenario with the most problems upgrading to W10 is when users are upgrading from Windows 7 on older machines. The older the hardware, the more problems. If the upgrade came from a properly working W8.1, problems were few and mostly minor. And when coming from W7, fewer problems are encountered if the W7 system is working properly, with fully updated drivers, before starting the W10 upgrade process.

Attempting to upgrade a broken computer has a greater chance of failing.

The main upgrade Microsoft managed to achieve in Windows 10 is all of the drivers will be automatically installed via updates apart of the NVIDIA drivers.
Click to expand...
What? The "main upgrade"? :confused2: And apart from NIVIDIA drivers? Not true. NVIDIA (and AMD) updates can come through WU too.

However the old versions of drivers with the additional software to support them can cause total chaos.
Click to expand...
Or cause no problem at all. And this is not exclusive to W10. And I don't know what you mean here by "additional software".
When you are troubleshooting Windows 10 you need to be aware of this problem and try to remove all of the outdated drivers not allowing the new version of drivers to be installed.
Click to expand...
I don't get this at all. It is way to generalized. I am just not going to start removing old drivers just because I am having problems with Windows. It depends on the specific problem I am having. Note that when new drivers are installed, the old driver files, if not removed, are just orphaned - not in the way. And if you have hardware that requires specific drivers, I don't understand why you would advice not to install the new drivers.

As a matter of fact, most of the permission holders are again windows services.
Click to expand...
What? No. Got a link to source data that says that? For one, AFAIK, there is no such thing in Windows called "permission holder". And every file and folder has permission settings and there are 10s of 1000s (typically close to 100,000) of those just in the C:\Windows folder and subfolders. Many more than there are services.
and in the rare cases of software not registering licenses without services
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??? I don't get this either. "Registering software without services"??? What does that mean? Lots of software don't install or use dedicated services so what registering are you referring to?
To increase the performance of Windows 10 you need to remove all of the working services
Click to expand...
Huh? This will kill Windows, then Windows won't boot. Services are essential.

The final line is to remove all of the drivers and additional software as services to increase the performance of the computer.
Click to expand...
??? Many programs run best as service in the background. Remove "all". No! Not advisable.

Any 3rd party AV software, Driver optimizer and boosting software must be removed immediately.
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Driver optimizer and boosting software I can agree with. 3rd party AV? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the problem I am seeing. And I will never tell someone to remove or disable their 3rd party security without ensuring they put something else (WD, for example) in its place.

Once you are ready be sure you will remove the Windows.old so no permission or settings will be inherited from there.
Click to expand...
NO!!!!! In fact, this is bad advice! Permissions and settings cannot be inherited from windows.old. But more importantly, if you instruct a user to delete windows.old, you have destroyed his ability to roll back to his previous version of Windows. So that is bad advice! Just leave it! Windows will automatically delete windows.old to free up disk space after 30 days anyway!

I am really sorry Andy and I don't mean to burst your bubble. I appreciate the effort you put into this but I really don't see much of anything there I particularly am enthused about. I think it creates more confusion. For starters, in addition to the inaccuracies, I don't understand the purpose or the intended audience. Parts seem to be for users simply having extremely generalized Windows 10 problems. Then other parts seem to be for users having unspecified problems upgrading to W10. It is just way too vague.

And I am not in favor of doing much of anything to "increase the performance of Windows". Windows 10 is NOT XP. We MUST get out of this conditioning that Windows 10 needs to be tweaked to work optimally. It is just not true anymore. Microsoft has W10 worked out and honed into a finely tuned OS. Dinking with settings most likely will degrade performance, not improve it. Unless you are a bona fide expert with advanced understanding of the inner workings of the Windows 10 operating system AND you have done extensive analysis of that specific computer and specifically how it is used AND you regularly reanalyze the computer and how it is used and adjust as necessary, it is best to just keep the Windows 10 default settings in their default configurations.

As far as upgrading to Windows 10, for the best chance for a trouble-free upgrade, there are already many guides and tutorials out there showing users how to prepare computer for Windows 10 upgrade.
 
What? The "main upgrade"? :confused2: And apart from NIVIDIA drivers? Not true. NVIDIA (and AMD) updates can come through WU too.
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That I wanted to confirm as I was reading NVIDIA can be installed with WU but NVIDIA strongly recommend to be done manually.

I`m happy to leave all drivers to install form WU :)


Or cause no problem at all. And this is not exclusive to W10. And I don't know what you mean here by "additional software".
Click to expand...


We facing many issues with the additional software installed from some of the wifi cards vendors as ralink wireless utility, intel wireless utility and so on.

??? I don't get this either. "Registering software without services"??? What does that mean? Lots of software don't install or use dedicated services so what registering are you referring to?
Click to expand...


Yes I`m speaking only for additional licenses services
But will note that as well.

Huh? This will kill Windows, then Windows won't boot. Services are essential.
Click to expand...

Big thanks on that, I meant clean boot and I`ll explain it better.

NO!!!!! In fact, this is bad advice! Permissions and settings cannot be inherited from windows.old. But more importantly, if you instruct a user to delete windows.old, you have destroyed his ability to roll back to his previous version of Windows. So that is bad advice! Just leave it! Windows will automatically delete windows.old to free up disk space after 30 days anyway!

I am really sorry Andy and I don't mean to burst your bubble. I appreciate the effort you put into this but I really don't see much of anything there I particularly am enthused about. I think it creates more confusion. For starters, in addition to the inaccuracies, I don't understand the purpose or the intended audience. Parts seem to be for users simply having extremely generalized Windows 10 problems. Then other parts seem to be for users having unspecified problems upgrading to W10. It is just way too vague.

And I am not in favor of doing much of anything to "increase the performance of Windows". Windows 10 is NOT XP. We MUST get out of this conditioning that Windows 10 needs to be tweaked to work optimally. It is just not true anymore. Microsoft has W10 worked out and honed into a finely tuned OS. Dinking with settings most likely will degrade performance, not improve it. Unless you are a bona fide expert with advanced understanding of the inner workings of the Windows 10 operating system AND you have done extensive analysis of that specific computer and specifically how it is used AND you regularly reanalyze the computer and how it is used and adjust as necessary, it is best to just keep the Windows 10 default settings in their default configurations.

As far as upgrading to Windows 10, for the best chance for a trouble-free upgrade, there are already many guides and tutorials out there showing users how to prepare computer for Windows 10 upgrade.​
Click to expand...


I really appreciate this advise thank you one more time.

I was looking exactly for a good feedback like this.

I`m not offended even I`m pretty happy you put effort and time in this.

This is actually a guide for technical people who have idea what they are doing more or less.

This is not created for end users.
(in case someone try to follow)

And apologies for my poor English.

Thank you :)​
 
We facing many issues with the additional software installed from some of the wifi cards vendors as ralink wireless utility, intel wireless utility and so on.
Click to expand...
This is why all users should ALWAYS choose the "custom" install options when installing ANY software in order to see the options to opt out of those extras and not just click OK to continue, which will install all the default options, and perhaps extra toolbars, search engines, upgraders, change your default browser and reset your home page too.

That said, in many, if not most cases for drivers, you don't have to install the drivers from install disks. Typically, the newer versions of Windows will detect the device and install the necessary basic drivers to get it going. Then through Windows Update, it will install the specific driver to enable any advanced features.

I NEVER EVER use the install disks to install printer drivers - especially with AiO printing devices. I always just go out to the device's website and install only the basic drivers, avoiding the big resource hogging suites HP and the others typically want you to install.
 
BTW, I still don't know who the intended audience is. If not the end-user, who? Advanced users should already be aware of these precautions. And still don't if this if for those upgrading to Windows 10 or already there but having problems with W10.
 
Digerati said:
We facing many issues with the additional software installed from some of the wifi cards vendors as ralink wireless utility, intel wireless utility and so on.
Click to expand...
This is why all users should ALWAYS choose the "custom" install options when installing ANY software in order to see the options to opt out of those extras and not just click OK to continue, which will install all the default options, and perhaps extra toolbars, search engines, upgraders, change your default browser and reset your home page too.

That said, in many, if not most cases for drivers, you don't have to install the drivers from install disks. Typically, the newer versions of Windows will detect the device and install the necessary basic drivers to get it going. Then through Windows Update, it will install the specific driver to enable any advanced features.

I NEVER EVER use the install disks to install printer drivers - especially with AiO printing devices. I always just go out to the device's website and install only the basic drivers, avoiding the big resource hogging suites HP and the others typically want you to install.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with that but we facing end users who will never allow you to delete a tool bar for example because is extremely important for them =).
We are finding they computers after upgrade to Windows 10.
Mostly they agree on the terms to go for a reset but some of them are totally against it.
Such cases are always interesting to the new lads and we want to leave them fixing them.
That why such procedures might help.
They troubleshooting blues screens as well with my help mostly.
And don`t get me wrong but I`m still learning even after nearly 17 years of experience in IT.
 
And don`t get me wrong but I`m still learning even after nearly 17 years of experience in IT.
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That is a never ending process. I am still learning after 45 years in IT support. Since IT is always advancing, evolving, and expanding, no one has, nor will anyone EVER know everything there is to know.

At some point, users need to take responsibility for their own actions. You cannot spoon feed everyone - unless they are employees using company-owned computers. Then you and management set policy and those who violate policy risk termination.
 
The things is we have many young people here and fighting with a broken Windows give them future knowledge when they moving to servers troubleshooting.
You have to admit the things we do with the normal computer can be easily applied with server environment.
 
Well, folks do need to learn to deal with the consequences of their actions. But at the same time, when it comes to company computers, the company does need to set policy in how they are used - to include making it clear, the company owns and has the right to view EVERYTHING saved or done on that computer.

You have to admit the things we do with the normal computer can be easily applied with server environment.
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To some extent. But server security is the responsibility of the server admin. And management 101 says, authority to control must come with that responsibility. So those users don't have the right to save or do whatever they want to the server, or the data stored on it.
 
RepairandRestore said:
NO!!!!! In fact, this is bad advice! Permissions and settings cannot be inherited from windows.old. But more importantly, if you instruct a user to delete windows.old, you have destroyed his ability to roll back to his previous version of Windows. So that is bad advice! Just leave it! Windows will automatically delete windows.old to free up disk space after 30 days anyway!
Click to expand...
Is that absolutely true -- that Windows will delete Windows.old after 30 days? I've never heard of that before. (Just because I've never heard of it doesn't make it true!)

I also do not believe that you can use Windows.old to roll back to your previous OS installation.

Retrieve files from the Windows.old folder - Windows Help
 
Oops... I should have checked with Microsoft before posting. . .

Microsoft said:
...by your previous version of Windows will be left in the Windows.old folder. These files will be automatically removed within 28 days of upgrading, or you can use Disk Cleanup to remove them yourself.
Click to expand...

How to remove the Windows.old folder - Windows Help

I did not know that.
 
Oops... I should have checked with Microsoft before posting. . .

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Microsoft
...by your previous version of Windows will be left in the Windows.old folder. These files will be automatically removed within 28 days of upgrading, or you can use Disk Cleanup to remove them yourself.



How to remove the Windows.old folder - Windows Help

I did not know that.
Click to expand...

Yea the Windows.old is deleted after 30 days.

Till now we have tree customers trying to revert to the old version of OS, unfortunately failed for all of them.

Well, folks do need to learn to deal with the consequences of their actions. But at the same time, when it comes to company computers, the company does need to set policy in how they are used - to include making it clear, the company owns and has the right to view EVERYTHING saved or done on that computer.

You have to admit the things we do with the normal computer can be easily applied with server environment.


To some extent. But server security is the responsibility of the server admin. And management 101 says, authority to control must come with that responsibility. So those users don't have the right to save or do whatever they want to the server, or the data stored on it.​
Click to expand...


After we move them to servers environment we always get them familiar with AD policies and domain environment.

I totally agree there are many different things between home user and company computer policies but in general to have something to upgrade like knowledge is better than noting :)

Everyone need to start from somewhere.


​
 

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