Every so often Memory usage increases until System starts to fail needing Reboot

[DKO]

Since around 2 weeks ago my System occasionally triggers Win 10 High memory usage warnings, until eventually it starts to not perform correctly. The only solution I have found to completely resolve is to Re-Boot or Restart PC. (Logging off/on does not work).

This issue usually only occurs every few days and does not appear to have an obvious trigger. I can use my PC for 2-3 days for 8-10 plus hours non stop and have no issues then suddenly it starts again (only to disappear on re-boot for a few days again).

I have tried to find clues but memory issues are way beyond my skill set, as is interpreting app info on Memory.
Nevertheless I have attempted to find some clues One thing I use a lot is Mozilla Firefox (currently 50.0b6) I always use the Beta channel and part of me feels it may be involved. I also wonder if I have occasionally accessed rare IP6 sites that need tunnelling activities to IPv4 (MY MODEM IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH IPv6) IF so could this explain infrequency and irregularity of issue.

I did find in Task Manager that when memory is fast and continuously being used up, that the Group of concern is Service Host: Local System (14). I assume 14 is number of service in that group running at the time).
Over the several times this issue happened I have tried to end task each service (where allowed) one by one in Service Host: Local System (14) and found that if only IP Helper task is ended via task manager that the increasing Memory usage immediately ceases to increase. However it does not clear or reduce total memory used.

Today the issue happened again and I installed Mem Recuv (as a stop gap workaround monitor and memory cleaner to try to help until issue resolved).
From what I can see, IF I go into services and actually STOP IP Helper memory does seem to be released. Today rather than restart PC I decided to Start the IP Helper service again after used memory had returned to around 28% after I had stopped the service.
Memory usage immediately started increasing again I was not using any apps at the time (excepts some in my Taskbar Tray. None of these are the cause as have been used for months even years in some cases AND I exited all I could (to retest) and memory continued to be used up fast. I think Win 10 itself tries to control memory usage the issue because I noted The Page File is usually only slightly used but when the memeory usage issue rears its ugly head that file usage increases to high percentages of usage as IP Helper (or what it is connected with) starts using up RAM memory.
Mem Recuv can be set to clean various memory areas (tick options are: Working set, System working set, Standby list without priority, Standby List and Modified page list. I believe "Working set" is the main area involved with issue as after running Mem Recuv clean memory dropped from 73% to around 46% (suspicious Mem Recu clears some/all memory by moving it to Page file - not sure if all).

Here are 3 screen dumps to clearely show what is going on (but Not why - hence my dilema)
First is at 28% Memory usage (immediate after having stopped the IP Helper Service (via Component Service> Services (Local)
Second is at 72% after Starting IP Helper again is where memory stands stands after around 35 mins (no apps used or opened except Firefox for a few minutes)
Third is what I see after a PC restart (usually initially 18% to 24%). As you can see all figures are back to normal low levels and currency at 19:30 Memory usage is still only 29%, IP Helper is running BUT as is normal Service Host: Local System (14) memory is NOT increasing so issue has ended (possibly for a few more days).

I am desperately hoping someone knows what is going on, what the trigger is (or how I can trace it completely down to the exact cause) and how I can resolve. (I have done one further thing this time . Before I restarted PC I executed "Reset Network" via Windows 10 Settings, as I had read a Win 7 MS community article a few years ago where a user had noted IP Helper was using up Ram and that was one of the suggested things to try (not that I have much faith in much of the advice on MS Community - as too many preset sledge hammer to crack a nut advice as first thing to to try).

Kind Regards,

 

[Digerati]

I don't know the answers - just thinking out loud here.

How much free disk space do you have?
Have you scanned for malware?
Have you looked in Resource Monitor (from the Performance tab in Task Manager) to see if you can find the culprit?
What do you have starting with Windows?

You say you suspect Firefox may be involved. You might check out Pale Moon which was "forked" or created out of FF code and see if it makes a difference.

When I had similar problems in the past with a particular program, I created a simple taskkill shortcut on my desktop to kill off every instance of the program. So to do this with Firefox for example, you would create a shortcut that ran the command,

C:\Windows\System32\taskkill.exe –f –im firefox.exe​

Then, when you experience this, you just click the shortcut and all instances of FF will be terminated - even those that don't terminate from Task Manager. For more info on Taskkill, see Terminate Hanging Program with Taskkill.

 

[DKO]

Thanks for trying to assist Digerati :smile9:

In reply to you questions & comments (blue)

don't know the answers - just thinking out loud here.

How much free disk space do you have? Plenty on all partitions ( have 2 internal 500 GB Hard Drives) C: (System) Partition has 46 GB free. K partition (second drive) where static 13.6GB pagefile.sys resides has 10.1 GB free.
Have you scanned for malware? Yes. Avast Free Antivirus, Malwarebytes Anti-Malware, Hitman Pro all scans resulted in no threats found.

Have you looked in Resource Monitor (from the Performance tab in Task Manager) to see if you can find the culprit?
Will have to wait until next time issue occurs (maybe days).
What do you have starting with Windows? Plenty 3 via start-up 17 via Startup Delayer. However It is important to know that all but two have been operating for over a year, the two newer for over 6 months. This issue has only appeared about 2 weeks ago.

You say you suspect Firefox may be involved. You might check out Pale Moon which was "forked" or created out of FF code and see if it makes a difference. When this issue has occurred I have gone into Task Manager and ensured Firefox is not running (even ended its task via task manager on one occasion and Firefox released its normal amount of used memory) BUT the Ram usage count continues to increase UNTIL I terminate IP HELPER Service which then stops the increase but does not release the memory it incorrectly used up) The only reason I suggest Firefox (OR it accessing a specific type of webpage) is because I use Beta AND Mozilla I constantly changing versions (both Beta and Release (E10 electrolysis being their latest big change project - not that I have that enabled currently), The other reason is, I am using Firefox most of the time. Certainly, Firefox takes up a few percentage points of memory (I have many add-ons - again not changed to added to in months).

I do wish to see if this issue occurs after Firefox fails to close properly which is not obvious (as in background) until trying to start a new Firefox session. Currently I have nothing really to go on regarding Firefox being involved -BUT CLEARLY SOMETHING has started TRIGGERING these occasional issues during last 2 weeks, and for all I know it is a MS update.Certainly IP Helper is involved (or is the cause)

When I had similar problems in the past with a particular program, I created a simple taskkill shortcut on my desktop to kill off every instance of the program. So to do this with Firefox for example, you would create a shortcut that ran the command,

C:\Windows\System32\taskkill.exe –f –im firefox.exe
​

Then, when you experience this, you just click the shortcut and all instances of FF will be terminated - even those that don't terminate from Task Manager. For more info on Taskkill, see Terminate Hanging Program with Taskkill.

Thanks for shortcut I will use when issue happens next time.

-----------------------

Do you or anybody know exactly what IP Helper does?
Do I need it running at all on my Home PC (or will need it in future)?

Information on the Web is pretty sketchy and imprecise. IP Helper (iphlpsvc, NetSvcs) isdefinitely is involved in my issue, but I am not sure whether something else faulty upsets it or if it is to blame on its own. I am inclined to disable and see if I get the issue when it is (of course I would need a week to be pretty sure as this issue can go days without rearing its ugly head when IP Helper IS enabled).

I should mention that unless a memory issue would need to be starting me in the face for me to identify cause. I tracked down IP Helper purely by trail and error of switching off the 14 services. It such a shame SO often when MS apps group things together so I could not see individually what EACH service in the Service Host:Local System (14) (currently using a constant 17.5MB after 2 hours usage of mostly Firefox) and other groups are individually doing. If anybody knows of a free utility or apps which can individually monitor each please let me know

 

[Digerati]

IP Helper is primarily for network administrators and developers. I don't see why you need it.

 

[DKO]

IP Helper is primarily for network administrators and developers. I don't see why you need it.

To be honest I was concerned about disabling it because it has been suggested that Teredo and IPv6 and IPv4 are in some way connected with it. My Modem is IPv4 only

I found in my registry this, which again suggest there is a Teredo relevancy.


Another reason I am not keen unless i have to disable it, is because I never have had to since installing Win 10 (or when using Win 7). Doing workarounds to an issue can be forgotten when something in the future becomes an issue possibly due to previous workarounds. I would prefer to isolate the primary cause if possible, but I am a novice regarding memory issues and and do not know how or what to do for memory leaks or issues like mine.
I have noted that so many things just come under a group heading of svchost.exe (of which I currently have 17 running) that I don't know where to start (and I assume IP Helper comes under that as well).
I am hoping someone with experience in analysing memory issues can advise a "sort of step by step" and what I should so,record/log screen capture so that they may see exact issue from interpreting diagnostic/monitoring results I am advised to run (even if I do not understand what I see).

I have been on PC 9½ hours (2 reboots for innocent non issue reasons) without any issues and my memory usage has always been under 38% at worst, 30% and when I exit Firefox it will drop to around 25% (after current 1½ PC session). I have Corsair 8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 Speed 1600MHz (8-8-8-24).


I have almost entirely been using Firefox all day without any issues.

Regards,

 

[xilolee]

Hi guys. :smile9:

The ip helper service seems to be present from Windows vista onwards, always with start type set to automatic, hence always running.
BlackViper always disabled it in his tweaked/barebone configurations.
It seems it could be really necessary when using IPv6.
And maybe when using proxy, vpn and when your PC is part of an "active directory".
If you don't use ipv6, proxy, vpn, "active directory", it could be enough safe to stop and disable it.

 

[DKO]

Hi guys. :smile9:

The ip helper service seems to be present from Windows vista onwards, always with start type set to automatic, hence always running.
BlackViper always disabled it in his tweaked/barebone configurations.
It seems it could be really necessary when using IPv6.
And maybe when using proxy, vpn and when your PC is part of an "active directory".
If you don't use ipv6, proxy, vpn, "active directory", it could be enough safe to stop and disable it.

Thanks for info but disabling is still only a negative workaround to an issue. If IPv6 takes off I will need it enabled. I rarely use proxy but occasionally I do (e.g. when I cannot access a site but a site checker says there is no issue. I check on another browser and if that fails I then check with a proxy to confirm site checker's findings.)

 

[DKO]

Hi all :smile9:,
Well it has happened twice in the last 4 days and as I was beginning to suspect it MAY be randomly triggered after I have been streaming videos for a while on various sites. I cannot identify for sure which one as I do n ot notice exactly when the memory usage starts increasing never to stop. One streaming site always triggers an off-site site link which varies (ads like Alibaba or http://go.cartstick.com. I use Firefox with Tab Mix Plus addon and links to 3rd party sites are set to open in a new tab (which I always close immediately). Certainly MOST of the time the increasing memory issue does not occur.

OK I have NOW Disabled IP Helper Service (default automatic) (and ALSO Network Connectivity Assistant Service (default Manual triggered) when Windows Event Viewer got had an Error message advising it could not be run and after investigation I found it is the only service that is dependant on IP Helper.

Now I am really struggling on understanding the impact of Disabling these two services. I think IP Helper is necessary to allow Teredo Tunnelling to access IPv6 sites when using only a IPv4 Modem. My Modem cannot use IPv6 and no firmware upgrade will be upcoming. I noticed on testing via Test your IPv6. that my previous score of 7/10 dropped to 0/10 and I assume this is because IP Helper is now disabled (so Teredo tunnelling or other methods of tunnelling cannot now run). My ISP in Thailand is NOT IPv6 ready and I am assuming the loss of Teredo tunnelling is virtually zero.

If I later buy an IPv6 capable ADSL Modem/Router and my IPS can access IPv6 sites in the future would I need IP Helper then anyway? (I assume I would not, as Teredo tunnelling to IPv4 would not be necessary but I honestly do not know).

I am concerned about IP Helper regarding Blue Tooth and VPN as I do nto understand the ramifications on each with IP Helper disabled. Currently I have no Blue Tooth needs and my Asus Blue Tooth driver it is disabled on my PC bu that may change in the future.

I am also concerned about the impact of my disabling Network Connectivity Assistant Service (NcaSvc). I really do not understand VPN and Teredo tunnelling needs. I do share my modem with my son's PC but we have no sharing capability or HomeGroup Network as I do not want our PCs sharing or connected to each other in anyway (not sharing equipment. I am not interested is allowing others Remote access to my PC nor my PC to theirs. My PC ever connected or sharing with any Remote networks etc. My only online needs are Internet, streaming downloading (all the normal stuff) and I do not know if they for some reason need these services enabled, nor do I know if or waht type of apps on my PC may want these services.

I really could do with some advice and recommendations.
ALSO I could do with help further tracking the actual issue in an attempt to resolve. As I said I think Streaming may be connected with the issue. Certainly stopping IP Helper Service when memory usage was continuously increasing stopped further increases immediately every time I stopped the service. I have no idea if NcaSvc was the issue as I never tested my PC with it ALONE disabled (as I have only just found it is a dependency on IP Helper).
Is there a clue in the fact that stopping IP Helper and disabling (without restarting PC) does NOT in itself release any memory already used - it only stops it increasing more. I need to restart or reboot PCto flush out the memory to normal levels.

(Aside: Is there a way of releasing memory used up already by a Service (just stopped/disabled) without restart/reboot of PC. Ideally I would have liked to flush out purely memory used by IP Helper (and NOT as memory cleaners do -just transferring to the Pagefile.sys).

I really need some pointers as memory issues and services are beyond my understanding. Currently the 2 mentioned services are disabled (about an hour) but I am happy to carry out any diagnostics a members asks for in trying to help me, provided he/she is able to interpret the results and is willing to do so and help me (because I will not be able to understand them, beyond basic memory usage is OK or running low).
Normally my memory usage ranges between 20% at Windows Startup to 38% when using Firefox and streaming etc.)

Many Thanks all.

 

[OldGrayGary]

Hi all


Interesting problem... Now that IP Helper is disabled, has the memory use been better? [nearly 3 GBs of system memory for that set of Service Host modules is indeed out-of-the-ordinary!]

Even back in Windows 7, some users were disabling (some even deleting) that module to avoid memory overuse:
IP Helper service "iphlpsvcs.exe" use huge memory - Microsoft Community

There are also precedents for trouble with memory usage linked to specific networking modules. I suspect that it might not be that IP Helper is itself the cause (if it hasn't been compromised), but other third-party components might be involved - because they cause the memory usage in IP Helper. As an example, a network suite called "Killer Network Suite" (usually part of motherboard utilities for systems with a "Killer" networking chip) was a problem for some systems:
https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/3yzjyz/killer_network_suite_gave_me_a_major_memory_leak/

I find that motherboard utilities have the capability to do more harm than good. The only way to know which is the case for your system is to test performance both with and without those utilities installed. [It is thankfully quite easy to add and remove them].

While testing your overall performance - also try things with no monitors or third-party memory utilities running (they can skew the results). If a Service Host jumps up over 2 GB or 3 GB, you should notice the slowdown without needing any utilities to tell you things are crazy slow. To see the offending process in more detail, you could then open something very light on resources, such as Microsoft/SysInternals utility called "Process Explorer" -- it can show you exactly how much memory is in use by each process running inside a particular Service Host. Process Explorer

Some versions of the Intel network drivers have been known to cause issues, too. If you happen to have an Intel network chip involved, you can investigate available driver versions.

See how it goes

 

[DKO]

Many thanks for your assistance OldGrayGary,

In answer to your first question "Interesting problem... Now that IP Helper is disabled, has the memory use been better? [nearly 3 GBs of system memory for that set of Service Host modules is indeed out-of-the-ordinary!]"
I only disabled them late yesterday, so it's much too early to know as often my memory levels are consistent, low and normal for days, even though I am on PC for 8-10 hours a day. I spend much of my life these days at home (living in Thailand) and with only my wife speaks English in my circle of contacts, Thai family, my PC is my primary companion (AFTER my better half that is) hence why I spend so much time on PC. So all in all, this issue only appears after several reboots/restarts and some 30-40 hours of use over 3-4 days. In your opinion could a single Website trigger an issue such as this. Certainly I have been streaming when I noticed the latest occurrences of this issue, and I had been using a particular site in that session, . I say "latest occurrences" because when issue FIRST occurred I was, of course, not taking note of what I had been doing or whether streaming. I thought at first the issue one of those totally unexplained "one off" that people occasionally get and cannot explain and may have been caused by user actions).

---
I can as you suggest easily cease the only 3rd party Memory Monitor I use. (installed MemInfo a few weeks ago) and the other is Asus Ai Suite II (which I know from the Web has affected many people). I think it salient to comment that MemInfo (and Mem Reduct used for a few days only) were never installed when the recent memory issue stated occurring (Mem Reduct is already uninstalled after only 3 days use).

Asus Ai Suite only has FanXpert, Probe II Tools components installed and its main module does monitor temps and voltages etc. This app has been installed ever since Win 10 was first installed when it first came out (and several years with Win 7 my last OS before Win 10. I am a little concerned to stop it because occasionally my CPU fan does not start up on a cold boot. I am suspicious this is due to how fans do not run at full power when CPU is cold (at Startup). Whether there is a tiny electrical dead spot on the fan, or just that low revolutions results in voltage being too low to make the CPU fan start on rare occasions I do not know. I use the FanXpert to start at 75% max speed and I now almost never get the CPU fan failing to start.

---

With regard to Process Explorer. I did look at its output and also that of Resource Monitor. However I could not see a way to break down individually the 11-14 services in the same Group as IP Helper. Both seemed to show me what Task Manager did and without (to my eyes and abilities) any extra clues. If you know of a way to show each services memory uses etc then I would VERY MUCH like to know how to do it.

I could if you or someone is prepared and has the time to help work on this for me,
If asked to, I can re-enable IP Helper BUT leave Network Connectivity Assistant Disabled to see if the memory increase issue continues. Obviously as this issue often occur days part I may not know for a week or two if it is the service to blame (and not IP Helper).

---

I did not have this memory consumption issue before Win Anniversary BUT that may be a Red Herring. Maybe an Update has triggered the start of these random Memory increases.
---

My MOBO, until a few days/weeks ago never had updated Asus Drivers for Win 10. 4 days ago I noticed they now had one or two (at last). To be honest the new Win 10 Asus supplied Realtek HD Audio Manager update was not good. Ever since I installed Win 10 I have had a, much reported, annoyance of seeing text saying devices cannot be identified when I click on the Tray icon. This is a false report as all are recognized and the Manager runs perfectly (except this false reporting). I tried newer drivers direct from Realtek itself months ago but they made no difference. Then a breakthrough, about 2 months ago (before the memory issue appeared) I decided to try the ASUS Realtek Win 8/8.1 update, thinking it may be more compatible than the old Win 7 one I was using. I was correct and the text reporting devices not found disappeared. I cannot be 100% sure but I doubt it is involved.

------------
A few days ago I updated (first time in months and NOT form Asus site) my Asmedia USB3.0 eXtensible Host Controller & SUB Host Hub drivers (to be fair I was unaware of any issues with those used up to then (as MS said I had the latest -but it always says that and is often inaccurate -maybe latest THEY have :smile9:) Only change I noticed was in Device Manager where 2 Asmedia USB Root Hub entries appeared that did not exist before (no Idea why or what their relevance is). I'm not aware of any issues.

I also updated to Intel(R) Chipset Device Software 10.1.1.34 (my version was a few versions older. I have not been aware of any differences.
I installed these as I was wondering if old drivers may be involved. I hasten to add the memory increase issue appeared weeks before these updates.

-----

When I had the memory issue appeared for the first time I did restore my system drive C: to my previous Aomei Backupper Standard (Free) file (a week older). This did not stop the every few days memory issue, which therefore makes me wonder if a Windows Update is what changed things (for me). I do always update my software when SUMo advises me of updates (only Release) but of course most of the software is not running most of the time. I only use ONE BETA and that is for Firefox (which MAY be involved, as it is always changing AND moving to e10 (multicore and I believe is intended to cater for sandboxing in near future. I do not have e10 enabled as some of my add-ons do not work with it).

One thing I am good at is recording changes or when I have installed new software (in detail) between Aomei backups. This has stood me in good stead in identifying occasional issues that I was able to resolve myself (I do not record existing software updates or MS updates)

---

I CAN confirm sfc/scannow, C:\Windows\System32\Dism.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth, C:\Windows\System32\Dism.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth & C:\Windows\System32\Dism.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth are ALL reports NO ISSUES.

---

I DID have a new, never seen before, issue when Windows Event Viewer reported an issue with one of my partitions a week ago (well after memory increase issues started). I found out it was my "System Reserve" partition (PC was however working normally). After searching web, I found one could give that partition a Drive letter and then Run Chkdsk which did report various issues. After few attempts to repair and reboots the System Reserve partition passed the Chkdsk tests AND Windows Event Viewer cease reporting an issue with it. I removed the Drive letter to restore the System Reserve partition to its normal state. I have NO IDEA what caused the issue and have never encountered any issue with the System Reserve in my many years of PC use. When I installed Win 10 Anniversary it did refuse to update telling me the System Reserve did not have enough free space (its size then was 100mb). I used Minitools Partition Wizard Free to increase its size to 350mb (which some sites suggests Win 10 expects). That of course needed me to reduce my C: partition to cater for that. It is important to note THAT was MONTHS ago with not partition issues or System Reserve issues reported - SO I THINK that issue is A RED HERRING. I am being 100% upfront so anybody wishing to assist me knows everything as something MAY be related to my memory increase issue that a member may identify as relevant, with full info from me.

---

In summing up my PC 99.9% of the time has ZERO issues and NO Errors in Windows Event Viewer after Windows Startup and usually none throughout a session (external USB Backup Drive and Flash Drives do seem to trigger a few errors sometimes when stated up/shut down but that happened in Win 7 and I never had any issues.

If all the above is an overload of info or heavy going I sincerely apologize to members reading this, but I'd hate to ask for members help and withhold info that in my ignorance I thought irrelevant (but may not be to you)

Thanks for Reading and Kind regards to all

 

[DKO]

UPDATE to my last Post:

Just after I had posted my last post I received a Win 10 Notification message that Win 10 wanted to close and restart my PC to make updates. I allowed this of course.

After the MS update I decided to check both IP Helper (iphlpsvc.dll) and Network Connectivity Assistant (ncasvc.dll) and noticed IP Helper has been updated from version 10.0.14393.0 to 10.0.14393.351 (Network Connectivity Assistant remains unchanged). Below are images to show these. The properties for IP Helper shows the changes

In view of this it's possible MS may be aware of an issue (maybe mine) with IP Helper and MAY have corrected.
Whether this is the case or not, I will reset both services to their Windows defaults to confirm whether the issue is cured or still remains with the updated IP Helper (iphlpsvc.dll).
I will not know for around a week or so if cured (earlier if issues re-occurs before then).



I will report back EITHER WAY

Regards

 

[DKO]

I have found a suspiciously seemingly identical issue posted on Windows 10 Anniversary eating majority of RAM for no reason? - Windows 10

As with me, IP Helper is prime suspect in that Topic.

Please note: Posts mentioning IP Helper are in the posts that continue below the "Related resources" section, after first three posts. (page layout fooled me first time I went to the web page, into thinking there were only three posts)

 

[OldGrayGary]

Hi again ...

No worries about the accidental repeat posts - moderators can remove them.

Let's hope that the recent updates (with the newer version of IP Helper) have a positive effect! Since Windows 10 is such a rapidly transforming system -- there are an unfortunate number of issues popping up (resulting in a large number of updates and patches).

Regarding the AI Suite and the sound utilities/drivers ... I tend to recommend using the AI Suite drivers only if they show as "Windows 10 compatible" (I prefer, in fact, a version updated specifically for Windows 10). Many of the power-savings and thermal-controls included in the AI Suite are redundant (Windows 10 has several levels of power saving controls and settings). I prefer not to use automatic updaters either (other than Windows Update), unless the updaters themselves have been updated for use on Windows 10. Board-level utilities don't always migrate up the operating system chain well. The ones that need to be the most compliant are those that run 24/7. ... For the most part, this preference of mine is because I like less clutter and overlap in system background activity. "Your mileage might vary" :)

Thanks for all the details & for keeping us up to date. I'm hoping your thorough work has found a solution already.

 

[OldGrayGary]

P.S. .... Thought that I'd add a screenshot of Process Explorer. For Service Hosts that contain several processes, you can click on that Service Host in Process Explorer to expand the view to include the memory/cpu/disk usage for that process. As you can see in the picture below:


Enjoy your weekend!

 

[DKO]

Hi OldGreyGary, thanks for your posts and continued interest, advice and information. I must admit Asus AI Suite has come under suspicion over the years for various issues. To be fair I am unaware of any it has introduced on my Win 7 and now Win 10 system. My version is old and I note there are newer ones for other Asus MOBOs but none brought out for my board so I have unwilling to risk trying them (on the grounds of "if it ain't broken.....").

One reason I use SUMo (which is highly rated) is that when I first did a clean install upgrade to Win 1o obviously many of the Software on my PC were not Win 10 specific (although all but one seemed to work perfectly). I personally feel the more one updates software the more compatible it is likely to be with Win 10 AND that issues (that Users may or may not be aware of that affect the specific software itself or may have a knock on effect) are more likely to be fixed. I must come clean here and say, very unusually in my personal experience, a recent update for a PDF app did in fact introduce a Win 10 issue which had me spending 4 hours identifying it as the cause of an indirect issue that did not affect itself. Once aware the app was the source of the issue, I checked its Help Forum to find others too had identified it as causing the same issue. The authors were quick to admit and accept, and offered a workaround until they fixed it , which was only a few days later.

With Win 10, I have found MS updates seem more guilty than most for introducing new issues and new miscellaneous Windows Event Viewer Errors. Regretfully these days in particular, MS seem very unwilling to advise when they are being advised of issues or have found some which causes. This lack of information causes uses a lot of consternation worrying if their PC alone has a particular issue or it is a MS one and what is being done about it if it is. MS needs to learn to "Err is human" but to withhold details of known possible issues is very poor PR and disrespectful its loyal users. Most of us will wait if told by MS they are aware of an issue with xyz but are quickly working on it, but ,when left in the dark we worry and waste loads of time (and then trsut in MS when they do come clean). It is regrettable that 3rd Party Forums currently seem more helpful and informative than MS and its Community. Anyway I'm off subject:r1:.

One thing I do not update is my MOBO's Bios unless I have an issue an newer update info suggests has been addressed OR if an update is for a seemingly serious issue that may strike any time. MY Bois is about 3 updates old, but seems to be working perfectly. I did update twice in the very early days of my MOBO's existence, when Users were reporting original and first (Or was it two) updates were unstable and had a lot to be desired. The update I have stuck with to date was well received.

If the issue strikes again OldGreyGary (hopefully not) I will take another look on Process Explorer now you have advised where and what to look at. Thanks

Regards from OldBaldDave :smile9:

 

[OldGrayGary]

Hi .... maybe Microsoft will get over its late mid-life-crisis and focus on what's important: transparency, thorough preparation/testing, wise appreciation of customer feedback, and products that work as advertised.

Next, all we'll need is someone to figure out how to get our hair to grow back (and maybe a little less gray?)
:)

 

[Digerati]

MS needs to learn to "Err is human" but to withhold details of known possible issues is very poor PR and disrespectful its loyal users. Most of us will wait if told by MS they are aware of an issue with xyz but are quickly working on it, but ,when left in the dark we worry and waste loads of time (and then trsut in MS when they do come clean). It is regrettable that 3rd Party Forums currently seem more helpful and informative than MS and its Community.

I have mixed feelings about Microsoft's policies on providing information. The fact of the matter is, keeping Windows fully updated and current is arguably the most effective and critical user responsibility for keeping our computers secure and thus its users (including our children) safe. It is also a fact that the vast majority of users are NOT technically qualified to decide which update is needed and which is not - even when full information is provided.

The problem is, even if the user fails to maintain proper "user discipline" by failing to "practice safe computing", who gets blamed? Microsoft! Relentlessly. And that is exactly what happens when users block or even just delay Windows Updates. So vulnerabilities that would have been patched or fixed by the update are exploited by a bad guy. But does the user get or accept the blame? No. Does the bad guy even get blamed? No! Microsoft gets the blame.

As someone with a shop, I can honestly say that the vast majority of problems we see are due to actual hardware (or driver) failure, or are user induced. Hardware fails and driver support is the responsibility of the hardware maker - not Microsoft.

By user induced, I mean through neglect - that is where the user fails to keep the computer clean of heat trapping dust, they mishandle the RAM, CPU or cards, they fail to do their homework when researching compatible RAM or CPU upgrades, or quality power supplies. Or they have been "click-happy" on unsolicited links, attachments, downloads, or popups. Or the user has "dinked" with the defaults without understanding what they are they doing.

The facts are, if Windows defaults are left the way Microsoft sets them, Windows is an extremely robust operating system. Windows Update is actually very robust, effective, and a highly successful process for keeping Windows fully updated and current. Considering there are well over 1.5 billion Windows systems out there, the fact is the vast majority of Windows Updates are installed with no problems at all.

The issue is, if just 1% of the users have a problem with a Windows Update, that is still 15 million upset users and 15 million upset users can make a LOT of noise - especially when amplified by the IT press just waiting to pounce on Microsoft. Yet a 99% success rate is considered an outstanding success rate in any industry (except blocking terrorists attacks).

So Microsoft is stuck between a rock and hard spot. If they allow "enthusiasts" to have greater control over their computers, the naïve WILL fail to keep their computers properly updated so their computers WILL become compromised or broken and Microsoft WILL get the blame.

And if Microsoft clamps down and limits user control, Microsoft WILL get the blame again.

So what is better? Giving users control and get blamed for not providing adequate security? Or taking away some user freedoms and keep them safe? Answer? See the 2nd line in my signature!

 

[DKO]

MS needs to learn to "Err is human" but to withhold details of known possible issues is very poor PR and disrespectful its loyal users. Most of us will wait if told by MS they are aware of an issue with xyz but are quickly working on it, but ,when left in the dark we worry and waste loads of time (and then trsut in MS when they do come clean). It is regrettable that 3rd Party Forums currently seem more helpful and informative than MS and its Community.

I have mixed feelings about Microsoft's policies on providing information. The fact of the matter is, keeping Windows fully updated and current is arguably the most effective and critical user responsibility for keeping our computers secure and thus its users (including our children) safe. It is also a fact that the vast majority of users are NOT technically qualified to decide which update is needed and which is not - even when full information is provided.

The problem is, even if the user fails to maintain proper "user discipline" by failing to "practice safe computing", who gets blamed? Microsoft! Relentlessly. And that is exactly what happens when users block or even just delay Windows Updates. So vulnerabilities that would have been patched or fixed by the update are exploited by a bad guy. But does the user get or accept the blame? No. Does the bad guy even get blamed? No! Microsoft gets the blame.

As someone with a shop, I can honestly say that the vast majority of problems we see are due to actual hardware (or driver) failure, or are user induced. Hardware fails and driver support is the responsibility of the hardware maker - not Microsoft.

By user induced, I mean through neglect - that is where the user fails to keep the computer clean of heat trapping dust, they mishandle the RAM, CPU or cards, they fail to do their homework when researching compatible RAM or CPU upgrades, or quality power supplies. Or they have been "click-happy" on unsolicited links, attachments, downloads, or popups. Or the user has "dinked" with the defaults without understanding what they are they doing.

The facts are, if Windows defaults are left the way Microsoft sets them, Windows is an extremely robust operating system. Windows Update is actually very robust, effective, and a highly successful process for keeping Windows fully updated and current. Considering there are well over 1.5 billion Windows systems out there, the fact is the vast majority of Windows Updates are installed with no problems at all.

The issue is, if just 1% of the users have a problem with a Windows Update, that is still 15 million upset users and 15 million upset users can make a LOT of noise - especially when amplified by the IT press just waiting to pounce on Microsoft. Yet a 99% success rate is considered an outstanding success rate in any industry (except blocking terrorists attacks).

So Microsoft is stuck between a rock and hard spot. If they allow "enthusiasts" to have greater control over their computers, the naïve WILL fail to keep their computers properly updated so their computers WILL become compromised or broken and Microsoft WILL get the blame.

And if Microsoft clamps down and limits user control, Microsoft WILL get the blame again.

So what is better? Giving users control and get blamed for not providing adequate security? Or taking away some user freedoms and keep them safe? Answer? See the 2nd line in my signature!

I agree with almost all you said Digerati :smile9: with few additional personal observations and opinions.

1) If Microsoft speedily acknowledged issues they had confirmed existed due to MS products/updates, then most would wait (if not critical) for MS to bring out a patch or update fix, and would not go seeking 3rd party solutions (as many do on this site and I have with this topic's issue). Some 3rd party fixes may have unknown negative ramifications which adds to my view MS would do well to quickly acknowledge confirmed issues down to its software and its priority to try to fix. People needing to turn to 3rd party solutions due to MS silence on known issues surely make stable MS updates harder to produce.

2) Keeping some MS defaults lends itself to MASSIVE data gathering and Privacy intrusions especially with Windows 10 which most do not wish to give to MS without our permission. Nor do most want MS to gather data which can be demanded by US Intelligence agencies (and others). In the case of the NSA this applies especially to the billions of us who are NOT US citizens and yet the NSA feels they are allowed more rights and freedoms to invade our privacy and rights in monitoring and data mining/gathering. I as a UK citizen feel if any agency be it US or other, are not allowed to access their own citizen data, due to current Laws of their countries, then hey should not feel they have the right to do so with genuinely supportive allies (in the case of the US the likes of UK, France Germany to name just a few a biggies just coz MS is a US Company and subject to US law).

I hasten to add I have nothing to hide and fully agree with your signature phrase "Freedom is NOT Free!" but there must be some reasonable limits, otherwise democracy is dead. I have no issue with reasonable data gathering but not "en masse" on everybody. Its the principle of massive untargeted data mining without lawful warrants etc. I personally take a very dim view of where another country (any) feels it can data mine on all other World citizens coz ITS laws MAY stop it doing so (on its OWN citizens)

3) When MS try to force Users (with Live account logins) to have ads on Lock screen (that now cannot be disabled officially) and down loads its desired (suggested) apps like Candy Crush what does MS expect?
MS might wish to turn all Windows Desktop PCs and laptops into Smart Phones, where adds and necessity to buy extras or accept in order to use most apps is the order of the day, AND hand over permissions to apps being loaded -often seemingly more requested than often seems necessary) but we Users of PCs and Laptops mostly do not wish to go down such routes. Thankfully for me I use a Local Account and have none of those Ad and suggested app downloads. I assume this is why MS want Users to have Live account logins and do a good job of not making the Local Account option readily visible.

4) Microsoft are not above outright deception BY OMISSION regretfully. A prime example was when they sent out emails and online advice that when the delta sync email protocol ceased users would not be able to use Window Live Mail (desktop) for outlook.com in future. They told us various self interested options (buy outlook, use new MS Mail app, use online only BUT totally failed to mention the OBVIOUS solution for those millions who love WLM and like to keep our messages synced to local PC that all we needed to do was over our Hotmail and Outlook accounts to IMAP, which I was already aware of and am using to this day despite the demise of Delta Sync (Shame Delta sync had to go as it is superior in performance and speed of syncing to IMAP). This sort of thing does not help User trust in MS.

5)) I do not wish to ever use Cloud service expect rare sharing of images etc. I do not trust Cloud security and do not want a continuous open connection to cloud or live account to MS. Its not that I believe my PC is more secure than Cloud servers its just that I feel Cloud servers are the prime target nowadays for hackers to target (why bother with individual PCs of irrelevant persons when a Cloud breach will yields millions of persons data.
If MS stop the next Win OS or Office from being a one off payment and completely loaded on to a person's PC but instead is cloud based requiring Net access to use and annual payments to avoid expiry then Win 10 will be my last OS or Office Suite I buy from MS.

6) IMHO its MS silence on well reported issues that causes Users to worry and tweak (often beyond their understanding) Together with MS desire to do mostly monthly updates slows some remedies and when released, MS fail to give barely any real info on what each update does.
I recall with Windows 7, my previous OS, that there were Critical, Recommended and Optional Updates. I personally always did Critical and Recommended but not always Optional. Why would I wish to bloat my OS with an Optional update for something I knew neither not my family would EVER need or use? Additionally sometimes Optional updates suggested that if Language packs were installed that these should be re-installed after the Optional update has been installed As I have a Language pack installed for my wife this would be nuisance especially if the update had zero use for us. I think the the best solution would have been in Win 10 mandatory Critical and Recommended updates but freedom to decide on optional. After all the more UNNECESSARY bloating of Win 10 the more likely new issues may appear.

7) Finally, and most saliently, I have not had runaway memory usage from IP Helper for a week (famous last words :r1:) which is a good sign that either the new IP Helper file update has resolved my issue (or I did something that helped or I have just been lucky and it will return anytime). Now if the new IP Helper file version IS what has resolved my issue then MS must have know the previous had an issue(s) and had they mentioned issues found I would not have bothered this Forum's members seeking help on am matter shortly to be addressed by MS), nor would I have spent many worrying days trying to track down an issue which could have been avoided if MS knew of the issue and had let us Users know they were aware and working on it.

Do not think I do not like MS or its products which I have happily chosen and used for decades. I love MS products, mine have have always been legally purchased (many Windows OS versions and a few Offices) BUT I do feel MS are increasingly arrogant and do what they want to force on us, rather ask and provide what Users want.

I for one do not want my Desktop PC being turning into a Smart Phone coz its NOT a smart phone and has many advantages Smart phones and Smart pads etc. will never have (well for not for a decade or two) I do not need large brightly coloured screen tiles on a 21 inch Monitor display. Long Live "Classic Start Menu". Thanks to CSM I was able do 100% reliable searches that Win 10 Original, often failed to do or crashed due to Cortana issues. For me the real frustration was that I live in a location that was not allowed to use Cortana when the Win 10 original version came out but Cortana sure was responsible for many issues and a variety of Windows Event Viewer Errors with Win 10 Original. Thankfully (except for removal of a few useful User options) Windows Anniversary was a very nice and worthy upgrade, especially with Cortana related issues, in my experience.

All the above JMO Digerati :smile9: as a retired Home PC User

Regards, Dave

 

[Digerati]

I agree Microsoft could and should acknowledge bugs and vulnerabilities sooner and be quicker about pushing out patches. But there has to be a balance (there's several balancing acts actually) here that is extremely difficult - at best - to achieve. There are literally billions of combinations of Windows operating systems (W7, W8, W10, Home, Pro, Enterprise, Windows Server, etc.) and hardware setups out there and the last thing Microsoft wants to do is push out a patch that has not been thoroughly tested that ends up breaking millions and millions computers. The shear number of OS and HW configurations they must test with is staggering - and impossible to test with all.

The other problem is just acknowledging the fact there is a vulnerability increases (to a very large degree) the risk bad guys will attempt to exploit that vulnerability before a patch can be developed, tested and released. It is just plain poor tactical strategy to announce to your enemies your weaknesses before you have a chance to shore them up. So in many cases, Microsoft must remain silent while they work frantically to first, identify the vulnerability then develop the patch, do extensive time consuming testing, then push it out.

I don't trust the cloud either. Considering major banks, governments, insurance companies, and businesses are getting hacked almost daily, how can anyone trust the cloud to keep their data safe? I am not worried about some one seeing what I have saved there as I have nothing incriminating to hide. I just worry the cloud will lose my data or my access to it will be denied.

Your "data gathering" concerns with Microsoft are misguided. Even at its worse, Microsoft is NOT trying to steal your passwords, full name, birth date, street address, bank account and credit card information, Social Security Numbers, personal contacts, or read your emails. Nor is it trying to overwrite security certifications (line Lenovo did) or redirect you to malicious sites, or take control of your computer to send spam or distribute malware.

So many just don't understand the difference between security and privacy. These same people have no problems with their cell phones. With your PC, Microsoft does not know your real name or your street address. In fact, with your Ethernet connected computer the closest Microsoft knows where you are physically located is your ISP's POP (point of presence). That is, where your ISP connects your computer to the Internet. In my case, that is 10 miles away in the next town over.

Your ISP, on the other hand, knows your home address, your real and full name, birth date, and your billing information too. They also know every single website you have visited and what you did while there. Your cell phone carrier is even worse. They also know your home address, your real and full name, birth date, and your billing information. But worse, your cell phone carrier knows exactly where you are standing to within a few meters. They know the store you are in, the aisle and even products in the aisle you are standing in front of. They know where you've been, how long you were there, the direction you are heading now and how fast you are moving. They know who you have talked to and texted and how long you talked to them and a whole lot more.

Frankly, Microsoft is, or should be anyway, the least of your worries.

 

[DKO]

Hi Digerati :smile9:

I agree with everything you say.

MS is probably one of the least of my worries but they are answerable to the country's Lawmakers and Laws where their HOs are. The more data MS gather, the more risk they are of interest to hackers AND the greatest risk is MS being answerable to some Govt. agency who can force them by law to hand own data (in fact this has already been tried as it has been with Apple and Google etc.) It is noted MS do not allow Users to decide what and how much telemetry and data we wish to pass to them. I do appreciate much of the data is purely to identify issues and weaknesses so MS can bring out updates to resolve but I also believe it is for targetted ads and the like which I do not feel is appropriate for a pad for OS. Whilst exact address may not be know Country and area are (of course this applies to all Companies Browsers etc.)

I personally feel Facebook and Google and the ilk are much more of a privacy concern. Hence why I am not a media of any Social Media group but admit I use Google search as its is the best. I use Firefox not chrome however.
I definitely agree that one's ISP know everything. MS CAN find quite al lot (IF it wishes) through our Windows Registries if it so desires (which often contains extra personal info (be it application registrations or email addresses safe sender contact lists etc.)

If one has a Hotmail or Outlook account then MS do have name country D.O.B unless one has lied (thus breaching T&C). I had to disable Windows Live Mail Live access because I became aware too late by being enabled (default) my Local Contacts list was synced to Outlook.com. I appreciate many, maybe most wish this, BUT my online Hotmail account was hacked. I know coz my contacts suddenly got ad emails sent from my account (which is when I became aware my contacts list had been synced to my online Hotmail email. account).

I agree with you about Cell phones and I hate to think how many millions of Smart phone User blindly (due to lack of understanding) give away access permissions to unknown app authors when they download apps and have to agree to granting permissions. I do not use my smart phones for Smart activities but was shocked when I bought my wife a new 6 inch display Android based Smart phone and as she could not understand much of being asked as she was a novice as I am on Smart phones and kept asking me. I have had a basic crash course on the web in Android and the number of times I found myself asking why does this app need permissions to my wife's contact list and other seemingly irrelevant permissions? My wife wanted a game or two and I now realize on Smart phones free means loads of intrusive ads or you cannot go far in a game if you do not purchase things or both. Even with paid for games you are steered to buy extras to make many games worthwhile.

I see MS are increasing ads or "suggested tips" to Users. I feel ads and loading some apps to our PCs this is not appropriate when Users have paid for Win 10 or updated from a paid for previous Windows OS. Normally with apps the Free ones MAY be ad supported but the paid for versions are Ad free. MS seems to want its cake and to eat it a well.

I've just seen this Microsoft aggressively pushes Edge with taskbar ads in Windows 10(similar reported on several sites). I admit MS answered on one site it is not an Ad but a Tip/notification. When is a tip and Ad or vice versa comes to my mind. MS said you can switch off tips BUT many tips may be useful to people IMHO this is much more of an Ad than a tip. Google do the same if you use their search engine continuously advertising Chrome if you clear cookies regularly for privacy/security. Luckily my Firefox Browser has Add-ons such a uBlock original & Adblock plus which deal with these Chrome pushy "Ads" (tips) very well. Stopping Win 10 ads or "suggestions" is not as easy.

You make an excellent point Digerati about security weaknesses should not be confirmed by MS and I should have been much more specific when I said MS should report issues they have confirmed. I will be specific now and say they should quickly and openly report confirmed issues which are NOT Security or privacy issues (or similar).

Finally I appreciate you time, knowledge and views on these important issues :smile9:.

As I finish this post its another 1½ days without any increasing memory usage issues. :dance:I'm really beginning to hope it is an issue of the past now (just hope I'm not speaking too soon).

Kind Regards