Disk Clean-up shows 0.98GB of Temporary Internet Files BUT View Files shows NO FILES

[DKO]

Hi All :smile9:, I'm hoping someone can resolve this for me as having searched the Web I cannot find any salient topics.

OS: Windows 10 Pro (x64) Ver 1607 (Build 14393.693)

In recent weeks when I go to C Drive Properties> Disc Disk Clean-up I see approx. 0.98GB as here (which reduces to 0.97GB if I click on clean-up button ). When I go to View Files it is empty. I cannot say how long this has been happening but I do not recall seeing this before with "Temporary Internet Files
"

When I go changes Windows explorer settings to show Hidden and System & Protected files, all I find are three empty folders and container.dat (zero bytes)



When (via IE 11) I move the "Temporary Internet Files" Folder to (for example_ D: Drive, then C: Drive's "Temporary Internet Files" reduces to a tiny amount of KB and NOW D Drive Disk Clean-up shows "Temporary Internet Files" as 0.97GB or 0.98GB.

Disk clean-up of either C or D Drive fails to reduce the 0.97GB. Resetting the Temporary Internet Files back to the Default Folder on C Drive then C Drive again shows 0.97GB of Temporary Internet Files.

Microsoft seems to have resolved an issue I had and many Users reported with Disc Clean-up where for many users it was showing "Temporary Files" of several TB and I honestly cannot say whether my issue with "Temporary Internet Files" started at same time the other issue was resolved on my PC, so I have no idea if my issues are connected in some way.

MY instincts are that for some reason my "Temporary Internet Files" Size of disk rather than being Zero (or very close) after a clean-up sets the count to 0.97GB instead of Zero. I say this because, IF I use IE 11 (rare) and access several Web pages then Disk Clean-up shows a small increase in size above 0.97GB and if I run disk clean-up it reverts back to 0.97GB.

Desperately hoping someone knows what is going on and how to resolve.


Many Thanks

 

[xilolee]

Hi DKO. :wave:

Check this folder instead "%localAppData%\Packages\windows_ie_ac_001\AC\INetCache". :wink11a:

 

[DKO]

Hi DKO. :wave:

Check this folder instead "%localAppData%\Packages\windows_ie_ac_001\AC\INetCache". :wink11a:

Hi xilolee :smile9:,

Just seen your post and this it what is in there (showing any Hidden and/or Protected System Files). As you can see that location contains only container.dat (0 bytes)



Thanks for trying to help but as you can see mystery still unresolved

Kind regards

 

[xilolee]

And this? "%localAppData%\Packages\Microsoft.WindowsStore_8wekyb3d8bbwe\AC\INetCache"

You can try the scans with wise disk cleaner and piriform ccleaner: maybe they'll find what it's occupying that GB (if there isn't an error in the disk cleanup - cleanmgr).

 

[DKO]

And this? "%localAppData%\Packages\Microsoft.WindowsStore_8wekyb3d8bbwe\AC\INetCache"

You can try the scans with wise disk cleaner and piriform ccleaner: maybe they'll find what it's occupying that GB (if there isn't an error in the disk cleanup - cleanmgr).

Hi xilolee, I won't use up more server disc space with another image this time. The result was identical to that for ""%localAppData%\Packages\windows_ie_ac_001\AC\INetCache"

If there is an issue with disk "cleanup - cleanmgr" then I would expect many similar reports from Users.
Everytime since this issue appeared the following have never reported ANY issues:
C:\Windows\System32\cmd.exe /k sfc.exe /scannow.
C:\Windows\System32\cmd.exe /k Dism.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
C:\Windows\System32\cmd.exe /k Dism.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
C:\Windows\System32\cmd.exe /k Dism.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth


Its like my OS defaults at 0.97GB instead of ZERO after a clean-up. If that is the case I have no idea how to reset it. I do regular Aomei backups and looking back at the files sizes over the last5 months there is NO EVIDENCE of a sudden jump by 0.97GB for my C Drive. Being 100% honest I do NOT believe the 0.97G of supposed "Temporary Internet Files" exist and that it is being falsely reported.

 

[DKO]

Too late to edit my last post so this leads on from it.

I feel the following images are 100% proof of False reporting of 0.97GB as I moved the Folder via EI 11 again to D Drive to test:



As we all can see NOW Drive supposedly has 0.97GB of "Temporary Internet Files" but the Folder is empty apart from Zero Bytes container.dat. AND to confirm this fact you will notice the increase in Used File size on D Drive has increase by only a tiny amount.

The 64 Million Dollar question is how to I get Correct reporting of the true "Temporary Internet Files" ZERO?

I have now returned the "Temporary Internet Files" Folder back to its Windows 10 Default location on C:, however I could not do it via IE 11 as the default INetCache folder was greyed out and not selectable. I had to do a (few days old) Aomie Backup Restoration of C: Drive.

 

[DKO]

I have found the cause AND Solution to the issue, so I'm reporting what to do for any future readers to see if they are faced with the same issue as I was.:smile9:

After not finding any answers I experimented further and FOUND THAT THE CAUSE WAS: Microsoft EDGE Browser's Browsing Data.

I opened MS Edge, clicked on the three dots (top right)> clicked settings> Under Heading "Clear browsing data" I clicked on its "Choose what to clear" Button> Several of the (visible) options showing were already ticked. I clicked then on the "show more" and several (meaningless to me) others options appeared. I decided "what the heck lets go for it" and ticked EVERY option and cleared. A red message came up stating it could not clear all data (see image).

I then re-checked C Drive> Properties> clicked Disk Clean-up button> tools again, and low and behold the Temporary Internet Files (that were at 0.98GB just before I cleared all MS Edge Browsing Data) had now reduced to 80.4KB. :dance:

I then ran Disc Clean-up a 2nd time and it reduced my "Temporary Internet Files" to 0 bytes (see Image)



PERFECT!! . Problem solved. I seem to recall I cleared MS Data before I first posted here BUT NOT the (show more options). I have no idea which one or more of the clearing options was/were the culprit for the .098GB but the issue is resolved now.

Kind regards to all

 

[DKO]

Regarding post #7 Immediately above this
Just realized I reversed the Image file titles with each other (stupid :doh:) and its now too late to edit.

My apologies

 

[DKO]

Further Update:

I have just done my latest Aomei (FULL) Backup of C: Drive and noted despite the 0.98GB of Temporary Internet Files reducing to 0 bytes after I had cleared all MS Edge Browsing Data, my new Backup file was barely any different in size to the last one made when Temporary Internet Files was reporting 0.97GB.

This, in my non expert opinion, suggests the files did not exist and the 0.98GB was falsely being reported. Maybe some recorder file used by Disc clean-up of the supposed accumulated Temporary Internet Files size clear-able, was not reset via Disk Clean-up, but was reset when I cleared MS Edge Browsing data via MS Edge itself.

 

[Digerati]

Windows automatically creates temporary files whenever you boot. If you have programs starting with Windows, more temp files will be created. And if you booted normally (not into Safe Mode) and you were connected to the Internet, as soon as you boot, even more temporary files will be created.

This, in my non expert opinion, suggests the files did not exist and the 0.98GB was falsely being reported.

This should not happen. I recommend you open an elevated command prompt (run as administrator) and enter chkdsk /r and press Enter (or run Error Checking) on the drive. When prompted to run checking at next boot, follow the prompts to allow that, reboot, and walk away. Checking could take several hours, even overnight. It may appear hung-up. Just let it run until complete.

 

[DKO]

Windows automatically creates temporary files whenever you boot. If you have programs starting with Windows, more temp files will be created. And if you booted normally (not into Safe Mode) and you were connected to the Internet, as soon as you boot, even more temporary files will be created.

This, in my non expert opinion, suggests the files did not exist and the 0.98GB was falsely being reported.

This should not happen. I recommend you open an elevated command prompt (run as administrator) and enter chkdsk /r and press Enter (or run Error Checking) on the drive. When prompted to run checking at next boot, follow the prompts to allow that, reboot, and walk away. Checking could take several hours, even overnight. It may appear hung-up. Just let it run until complete.

Hi Digerati :smile:, Thanks for your input and advice.

I have often run chkdsk c: and if an error is reported I run Windows Error checking and if still there then on very rare occasions I use chkdsk /f.
Admittedly I have not had a need to run chkdsk /f on C for a lvery long time as no problems are being reported by chkdsk c: (which by the way I have found on some rarer occasion has reported an issue where the Windows Error checking does not.

My CrystalDiskInfo real time monitoring is not reporting any issues with the Hard drive my C: Drive (system) partition is on. It reports I am using 100% of my Sectors, none having been reallocated (not that I know whether windows automatically would re-allocate or if only after running chkdsk /r or similar to check every sectors first and make them as bad and not to be used).

Currently after my very recent actions of clearing all Browser data via MS Edge I have not had any issues of misreporting in Disk clean-up. I do not use MS edge or IE11 hardly ever. I was until recently using Firefox and if necessary IE 11 BUT now I use Firefox (main) and Opera.

Immediately before I replied here to your post Digerati, I checked my Temporary Internet Files on C: Drive via dsk Clean-up and it showed 1.46MB (seems normal to me). I ran Disk Clean-up and it cleared them to 0 bytes. My belief is that my issue (whatever the cause) has been completely cured when I cleared all Browser Data via MS Edge. I am not saying it was caused by win 10 bug or that MS Edge is involved. What I am saying is, that the clearing of Browser data via MS Edge did something that seems to have resolved the misreporting issue (hopefully permanently). OK for 10 days now.

I can run chkdsk /r as you suggest, but my inclination (unless you have a good reason against my inclination) is not to let it run for hours to check my Hard Disk unless the issue appears again. Do you agree?

I do know that Hard Drive is not new and Crystal Disk Info says its running hours to date is 15,689 hrs. However it performs well. The ONLY issue I sometimes have these days is after some Aomei Restorations of Backups. where occasionally "System Reserved" is reported by Windows as needing fixing (which it does). This one time happened when I tested System Reserved by allocating a drive letter, running chkdsk that reported no problems found. I then removed the drive letter, rebooted PC and did a Backup. I then restored that backup. Win 10 reported errors needing fixing which it did (not sure it reported an issue first booting of restoration or 2nd). I have never seen any errors reported with System Reserved when doing random chkdsk checks in between restorations AND Windows 10 does not report any either (other than as I said occasionally just after an Aomei restoration, but never period in between backups). Not sure of the cause. I am using an old Aomei Ver 3.2 coz Ver 3.5 did not work perfectly and Ver 4.x removed Universal Restore from the FREE version. As I always found Ver 3.2 100% reliable and perfect for my needs I reverted to it just for the Universal Restore option, which I consider an important option if one ever has Restore problems as more robust and forgiving.

Kind Regards

 

[Digerati]

I have often run chkdsk c: and if an error is reported I run Windows Error checking and if still there then on very rare occasions I use chkdsk /f

This is a mixed up way of doing things. Error Checking is simply the Windows GUI based version of chkdsk for folks who are not comfortable with the command prompt. So running chkdsk without any switches is the same as running Error Checking with no switches (though that is not possible on W10). Chkdsk /f is the same as running Error Checking with all the boxes checked, or in the default mode with W10 Error Checking.

That said, I generally recommend running chkdsk /r instead of /f because /r includes ("implies") the same checks as /f but add a couple more options for a more thorough check and repair (if repair is possible). If you open a command prompt and enter chkdsk /? Checkdisk will not run, it will just list all the options (switches) and their descriptions.

but my inclination (unless you have a good reason against my inclination) is not to let it run for hours

You need to let it run until it finishes. Stopping it short before it completes (regardless which switch you use) means some sectors of the drive are not tested.

If no S.M.A.R.T. errors are shown, that is good, but S.M.A.R.T. is really used to predict impending doom, and of course, not all predictions come true, and more important, many events occur without any advanced warning.

You could very well be right about your assessment about Edge browsing history. You might have had some corrupt temp files that were seen as still open, thus could not be deleted.

As far as your System Reserve errors, I don't know what causes that. It could be many things. I do know that improper shutdowns (system crashes, lock-ups, sudden reboots, power outages, etc.) can cause file and disk corruption. And improper shutdowns are often power related, from a failing, unstable power supply, to unstable facility/grid power. Since everything inside the computer relies on good clean, stable power, I always recommend the use of a quality, 80 PLUS (at least Bronze) power supply and I always recommend every computer be on a "good" UPS with AVR.

As for browsers, I actually prefer IE11, then Chrome and Pale Moon. If you like FF, I recommend you check out Pale Moon.

 

[DKO]

HI Digerati :smile9:, Firstly my apologies for not replying sooner.

Based on all you said I decided to run chkdsk /r which I did on "System Reserved" as well by adding a drive letter to it (removed afterwards). Result: NO issues or bad clusters found.
I then tried running chkdsk c: /r but it wanted to schedule it for doing at Boot up which I agreed to. However, to be honest I terminated it when I realized it was doing the Scan dialogue which I do not like, not because it is not working OK, but because I cannot see what is going on with tiny inof like "scanning 15% completed" that tells me very little. I decided to use my Emergency Aomei PE Boot disc which I created as it allows me to get to a cmd window as one of its options. I then ran chkdsk /r via that and saw the familiar chkdsk info.

chkdsk c: /r completed in around 25 minutes Result: NO bad clusters HOWEVER it also advised "Chkdsk discovered Free space marked as allocated in the Master File Table (MFT) bitmap. No further action is required".
As I recalled years ago chkdsk in certain circumstances could report fixed errors but a 2nd scan may show the same error I decided to do a "Belt & Brace" rerun of chkdsk c: /r (as worth doing as only 25 minutes to do. Result: It did all the previous checks and reports not problems were found.

Digerati, not only was you advice and recommendations well founded but by following them (and NOT following my original inclination ) found an issue which was corrected. SO MANY THANKS :s4:.

-------
Thankfully I am not vulnerable to improper shut downs (unless a BSOD scenario or app causes that (cannot remember when I last saw a BSOD or improper termination) because I have used an APC UPS for years. To be honest where I live power cuts are common about 6-10 a year on average and watts variable dropping at peak times at night by around 10- 15%. Just switching on a large air con at in our house can sometimes cause my UPS to kick in for a split second. Currently I use an APC Back-UPS CS 650. I had a bigger APC unit but it got cranky soon after warranty expired (occasionally beeped continuously when I switched it off although worked fine otherwise, until it failed completely suddenly - I would not buy that more powerful APC model again -maybe just unlucky). My son's PC has an old Back-UPS CS 550 which still works perfectly so I trust the CS models.

---
I do have a Bronze level PSU in my PC. Interestingly, it did have a Silverstone Gold level in it originally when my PC when built, but that failed 1 month into use and I had to send it away for repair to our Capital city 500 kms+ away. I believe it was then sent to another country for the repair or permission for the Agent in my country to replace under warranty. Anyway it took a few weeks. In the meantime, I bought a different cheaper Brand (Bronze level) PSU to use whilst it was gone, and to be honest never bothered to switch them around when the Silverstone was returned to me. I know I should have as it is a better unit, but I felt the one I am using is pretty good on specs and it working just fine and I don't like messing with hardware and cabling inside my PC case any more than necessary. The Silverstone will always be there when I need it or build another PC :smile9:.

Kind regardsand thanks for your help Digerati AND for the explanations provided why chkdsk /r should be used in preference to chkdsk /f.

 

[Digerati]

I then tried running chkdsk c: /r but it wanted to schedule it for doing at Boot up which I agreed to.

It does this on boot drives but not secondary drives (or partitions) because when an operating system boots, there are many open and temporary files on the boot drive that cannot be moved. This is exactly why it is scheduled to run at boot so it happens before those files are opened and temp files are created.

However, to be honest I terminated it when I realized it was doing the Scan dialogue which I do not like, not because it is not working OK, but because I cannot see what is going on

That's too bad. Would you really understand what was happening if there was a fancy GUI to look at? Highly unlikely. You could not see what was happening because that would require an operating system and the GUI program to be running - defeating the purpose for running at boot in the first place. I am not necessarily a spiritual person, and as an electronics technician, I want to know exactly what is happening with my hardware too. But there are many things involving electronics in general, computers specifically that we must take a leap of faith and trust what we can't see is still a good thing. Letting chkdsk do its thing is one of them.

If nothing else, visit your drive maker's website and download and run their drive diagnostics program. Or, since hard drives comply with industry standards and are not proprietary, you can just use Seagate's SeaTools. It works on all brands.

Seasonic is certainly a reputable brand, but until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, there will always be units that fail prematurely. And course, failure could have been due to mishandling during shipping too.

As for the UPS, glad to hear you use them. I prefer APC but have used Tripp-Lite and CyberPower too. I live in Tornado Alley and while total power outages are not that common, they do happen. And when we do have an outage, it is not uncommon for it to take 3, 4 or more hours before it is restored. The worse, after a bad ice storm, was 5 days. Sadly, it is not uncommon for a squirrel to forget to let go of one wire before grabbing the other - the resulting explosion (it is REALLY loud) blows the transformer fuse. Those "crispy critter" events typically take about an hour for the fuse to be replaced and power restored.

But mostly our problem (especially in my older neighborhood) is unstable power during bad weather and it is the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) of a "good" UPS with AVR that really makes a UPS shine, and necessary.

So I have a UPS on all my computers, the home theater/big screen TV equipment, garage door opener, and even one on the electric blanket! :grin1: As for yours giving problems shortly after the warranty expired, do note UPS batteries need to be replaced every 3 or 4 years. Weak batteries (especially one that has developed an internal short) can result in some pretty odd UPS behavior. For most UPSs, replacing the batteries is an easy user task. But note I NEVER buy replacement batteries from the UPS maker. They are always way overpriced. I shop around at the various on-line battery sites to find the best price (factoring in shipping too).

 

[DKO]

I then tried running chkdsk c: /r but it wanted to schedule it for doing at Boot up which I agreed to.

It does this on boot drives but not secondary drives (or partitions) because when an operating system boots, there are many open and temporary files on the boot drive that cannot be moved. This is exactly why it is scheduled to run at boot so it happens before those files are opened and temp files are created.

However, to be honest I terminated it when I realized it was doing the Scan dialogue which I do not like, not because it is not working OK, but because I cannot see what is going on

That's too bad. Would you really understand what was happening if there was a fancy GUI to look at? Highly unlikely. You could not see what was happening because that would require an operating system and the GUI program to be running - defeating the purpose for running at boot in the first place. I am not necessarily a spiritual person, and as an electronics technician, I want to know exactly what is happening with my hardware too. But there are many things involving electronics in general, computers specifically that we must take a leap of faith and trust what we can't see is still a good thing. Letting chkdsk do its thing is one of them.

Hi Digerati. :smile9:
Yes I appreciated that Boot Drive or System Drive requires a scan at PC boot stage (pre Windows loading). I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I do not need fancy GIUs what I wanted was the "good ole" Cmd Window chkdsk details one sees with non System Drives (partitions) hence as I said:"

I decided to use my Emergency Aomei PE Boot disc which I created as it allows me to get to a cmd window as one of its options. I then ran chkdsk /r via that and saw the familiar chkdsk info.

chkdsk c: /r completed in around 25 minutes Result: NO bad clusters HOWEVER it also advised "Chkdsk discovered Free space marked as allocated in the Master File Table (MFT) bitmap. No further action is required".
As I recalled years ago chkdsk in certain circumstances could report fixed errors but a 2nd scan may show the same error I decided to do a "Belt & Brace" rerun of chkdsk c: /r (as worth doing as only 25 minutes to do. Result: It did all the previous checks and reports not problems were found.

As you can see I did do a FULL chkdsk /r on C: Drive and in fact ran it twice (first found errors and fixed, 2nd confirmed repairs definitely 100% successful).

Please may I ask you a question about Boot Drive. With Windows 10 which is the actual Boot Drive (partition) I knows C: Drive (for most setups) is the System Drive (or Partition) but I was under the impression that now with Windows 10 the Boot Drive (partition) is now only on the "System Reserved" partition hence why System Reserved needs to be the Active Partition. Am I mistaken or are the boot files spread across both partitions. Thanks.

Regarding UPS. Yes I agree about importance of automatic voltage Regulation and I should have emphasized the importance of that for me. I do not find the Voltage here in Thailand where I live (although a city) very stable OR strong. By strong I mean that all too easily just switching on a medium to high voltage item too easily affects the voltage especially on initial powering on. I think the line phases in many streets are "fully loaded" and at near peak ability with noting or little in reserve, just to get near normal voltage levels. Mornings in my house can get get up to around 232V at times however, hot weather (currently 38°C and climbing expected to reach 43°C in a few weeks), early evening peak usage time can see the volts normally drop to around 211V (occasionally lower in my road. Concerning is that one of 2 new houses are being built which will I am sure add further strain on voltage levels.
When I first came to my Road my power peak was around 222V at its best and I often recorded recorded 1voltage in the 175V - 180V range and recorded levels as low as 167V and those levels caused a lot of issues. Took my wife and I nearly a year chasing up the Electricity Company to do its mandate and get levels to correct values (230V officially). I think thre Electricity Company added a new line and phase (forgive me if using wrong terminology) to our road. (whole road benefited). During that year our Air cons, fridge and freezer really took a hammering. Thank goodness for electronic ballasts for fluorescent light tubes coz the old heavy metal types were not always able to build up enough power to fire up some of our tube lighting. I can tell you my APC UPS took quite a hammering too and it was a very valuable item. I'd NEVER be without one.

I trust APC and probably only had a "one off" bad unit. The reason I would avoid another of that model is purely in case there is a slight weakness in that model, after all all manufacturers of any item have their stars and "lesser" stars. I have never used anything other than APC as I know its great Worldwide reputation (although I appreciate there are one or two other with superb reputations. CyberPower, to name but one). To be honest it is not easy (sometimes not possible) getting some Brands that are common in US, UK or West. I appreciate most items can be purchased online, but it can be costly or financially unrealistic to get these items repaired if they fail, AND repair time can be weeks. Thailand is a VERY Bangkok orientated country with regard to Bases, Distributors, Head Offices, Service Centres etc. and sometimes (even then) more complex repairs need to go to overseas. (as happened with my Silverstone PSU.

Kind Regards.

 

[Digerati]

It is not mandatory there be a System Reserve partition. There are ways to install Windows without one. But if one is there, it is best to just leave it.

See What is the System Reserved Partition and Can you Delete It?

By strong I mean that all too easily just switching on a medium to high voltage item too easily affects the voltage especially on initial powering on.

Anomalies originating from inside the house are something many just don't understand. Many assume because the grid is stable in their area, they don't need a UPS with AVR. That is not true. Any high wattage device in the house can cause and dump surges or spikes on the circuit, or cause significant dips (opposite of spikes) or sags (opposite of surges). This is especially true if the device is faulty or poorly designed. For example, a 1500W $15 hair dryer made in some back woods factory in China using parts from a sister factory up river by forced (often under aged ) labor over seen by corrupt management and government officials.

As far as your comment about a weakness in that particular APC model, sadly, like many products, the better features and higher quality components and construction go into the bigger models. I have an APC 1500VA UPS that not only provides significant power and longer run times, but generally better regulation, faster cutover, and a nice LCD status panel too - compared to lessor models.

 

[DKO]

It is not mandatory there be a System Reserve partition. There are ways to install Windows without one. But if one is there, it is best to just leave it.

As far as your comment about a weakness in that particular APC model, sadly, like many products, the better features and higher quality components and construction go into the bigger models. I have an APC 1500VA UPS that not only provides significant power and longer run times, but generally better regulation, faster cutover, and a nice LCD status panel too - compared to lessor models.

An impressive UPS indeed Digerati. The model I had issues with was a APC Back-UPS RS 1100VA and as I said probably a "One off" poor unit. Maybe the 2 batteries inside it are usable in our other APCs CS UPS (batteries seem same size and values not sure how long they will last in storage so maybe not).

 

[Digerati]

1100VA is certainly a decent size and the Back-UPS RS line is decent too. So you may be right and just were unlucky.

As far as using the batteries in another unit, beside the obvious physical size issues (normally not a problem), they must be the same voltage. Some UPS use 6V SLA (sealed lead-acid) batteries, some use 12V. And they should have the same or greater Ah (amp hour) value as the batteries in the UPS these would go into. If the Ah value is less, the UPS may not be able to handle the load so I don't recommend using lessor batteries.

However, you can easily use batteries with a higher Ah rating. For example, you can use 12V 8Ah batteries in place of 12V 7Ah batteries with no problem. The result will be the UPS can provide a longer run time during a power outage. A good thing. It will take a little longer to get a full charge, but that is not normally a problem.

The other issue is the terminal (connector) size. They come designated as F1 and F2. Adapters are available but many UPS battery compartments are so tight, they don't have the space for adapters too. So best to make sure the batteries use the same type.

Lastly, factory batteries are typically 2 - 4 separate SLA batteries acting as cells to make one large battery and they are often bound together in heat shrink plastic or something similar. The replacement battery from the original UPS maker is then sold as 1 unit (at a higher price) instead of separate cells. You will need to disassemble the old battery pack, remove and keep any straps (short jumper wires) so you can use them when you assemble your new battery pack - making sure you map how the individual cells are oriented and strapped (+ to - and - to +) before removing those straps.

It may sound a little intimidating, but after you do it once, you will see it is much easier than it sounds.

 

[DKO]

1100VA is certainly a decent size and the Back-UPS RS line is decent too. So you may be right and just were unlucky.
EXTRACT

However, you can easily use batteries with a higher Ah rating. For example, you can use 12V 8Ah batteries in place of 12V 7Ah batteries with no problem. The result will be the UPS can provide a longer run time during a power outage. A good thing. It will take a little longer to get a full charge, but that is not normally a problem.

The other issue is the terminal (connector) size. They come designated as F1 and F2. Adapters are available but many UPS battery compartments are so tight, they don't have the space for adapters too. So best to make sure the batteries use the same type.

Lastly, factory batteries are typically 2 - 4 separate SLA batteries acting as cells to make one large battery and they are often bound together in heat shrink plastic or something similar. The replacement battery from the original UPS maker is then sold as 1 unit (at a higher price) instead of separate cells. You will need to disassemble the old battery pack, remove and keep any straps (short jumper wires) so you can use them when you assemble your new battery pack - making sure you map how the individual cells are oriented and strapped (+ to - and - to +) before removing those straps.

It may sound a little intimidating, but after you do it once, you will see it is much easier than it sounds.

Hi Digerati, No not intimidating at all. I have had to change Batteries in both models of my APC UPSs and know what you are referring to. The RS that failed has 2 separate batteries connected to each other by short wire and terminals, to make effectively one big battery. There are no heat shields or extra "bits" (apart from a strip of double sided tape to (only just) hold the two batteries together to make effectively one big battery. Without looking (now) at the terminals I am 99% sure they are identical on both models and that the batteries ar the same size. The only question which will soon become apparent when swapped is whether the RS batteries are still viable when the time comes (possibly not - "but nothing ventured nothing gained" as the say :smile9:).


Thank you for confirming a higher Ah will cause no issues at all (apart from longer charging time, which is good news). Any added operational times is always useful although it is my custom to safely power down as soon as a power cut strikes if not restored within 30 seconds, however occasionally have been caught finishing an online post and an extra 5 mins before powering down can be very useful. I have looked back at my purchase details and note in the past I replaced the batteries with 7.0Ah and then 7.2 Ah batteries (although I have record saying original was 8Ah). I think at the time 8Ah was not easy to track down where I live. I do know I have not been sure in the past if I could not get 8Ah, whether above or below 8Ah was best. Now thanks to you I know. Clearly the UPS on my son's PC has reduced times it will last if only 7.0 or 7.2Ah (maybe same applied to the RS, which I believe I had to use two 7.2Ah).

I am very happy with my APC BACK-UPS CS 650, which came with PowerChute software and cable (something previous purchases in Thailand have for some reason deliberately excluded the software and cable. I have no idea why, unless slightly cheaper). The software tells me I am usually using around 115 to 185 Watts so there is plenty of reserve (although I used to have a separate Graphics cards which failed and due to funds I now use my Intel CPU Integrated Graphics. Had it not failed more watts would have normally been normally used). The plus with the CS650 is only having ONE battery to replace when the battery gets tired. I admit I cannot use high or Medium settings as a recommended for PCs coz the UPS at times would be clicking away as it dealt with voltage fluctuations (mainly drops) around early evening. My necessary setting, where it is not doing this hardly at all, has needed to be set to Low Sensitivity and Voltage Min - Max that works fine is 178V to 256V. My PC and PSU has Zero issues with 178V, but to be honest VERY RARELY does voltage drop near 178V . As this is the highest usage period of the year of Air cons so I will experiment with a higher Minimum Voltage and see what I can get away with (without multiple early evening UPS battery supply triggering spells).

Kind regards

 

[Digerati]

Without looking (now) at the terminals I am 99% sure they are identical on both models

Both types are identical except F2 are a mere 1/16th inch wider. So best to measure first before ordering.

As far as using 7.0 or 7.2Ah batteries instead of 8Ah, that will reduce the load capability too, which could become apparent at the moment of cutover. It probably is not a problem unless the load was near capacity already. But for sure, if it is supposed to be 8Ah, I would get 9Ah instead of 7.

If you are on 220 - 250VAC mains and it is dropping below 180VAC, that is not good. The ATX Form Factor standard calls for ATX supplies to "hold-up" output whenever power drops to 180VAC (90VAC in 110VAC regions) for a mere 17ms. This would explain why your UPS was cutting over to battery so often. It is great your PSU is handling that, but I suspect it is under considerable strain, as may be your UPS AVR circuits. Since you are already on an UPS, not much you can do about it but make sure everything is clean of heat trapping dust and getting good ventilation.