Archiving woes... (major issues on deciding what to do with my backups)

Anthony N

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Michigan, USA
I'm on the hunt to find a solution to rid of my "always-on" backup drive.

I've considered SSDs but the bigger question is do they stand powering on and off constantly.

I'm also looking at newer hard drives, however I feel like there will be that one time when I click it on and that's it... just a click and notta.

Point is I am trying to reduce power usage, but maximize my product life and backup reliability.

I know I'll be using an AC powered, Air Cooled external enclosure.

Now its just a matter of SSD or Hard drive.

Existing system consists of a 1TB WD Green that has about 1.1 years on it.
Now its time for something a little greener and managed better.

I know I will build an enclosure that's just for the system images.
but now I need input on the data side to replace my aging system.
 
You will not go wrong with another HDD. The disk will power down when not in use and it is a tried-and-true storage technology.

I will only trust my backups to HDDs and Optical media.

I, personally, make manual backups to my backup media then it is removed from power and stored in a safe place. (Hitachi 500GB HDD which I connect using my HDD hot-swap bay).

I plan on aquiring a 2TB drive to replace the 500GB drive soon... But money is tight.

SSDs may be a little greener, but the cost-per-MB it quite a bit higher and you would need multiple SSDs to match the storage of one, large, HDD. SSDs are good for performance boosters (OS drives) but archival and storage should be left to traditional HDDs.
 
That's what I figured.

I just figured that HDDs can fail at any random moment, now as for flash media, yea I get that yes they are costly and risky, from the stand point that a DIMM can fail.

But HDDs are no different, a controller can fail just as a spindle can as well.

So you almost need a backup, of your backup, of your backup LMAO.


Why I considered SSD, Larger than a flash drive, but only small data like documents, videos, and presentations would be on it.
 
There is the old saying... If the information is important, keep it in 3 different places...

Still... HDDs have been around for a very long time and are a very reliable form of electronic storage.

I would not keep it hooked up all the time, though... Electronics life is measured in Power on Hours... For every hour that drive is spun up, that is an hour less that it will last.

Get another HDD and keep the current drive as your secondary backup.
 
I have no intentions to keep it on as a 24/7 HDD.

Just when I need to make reads and writes to it.

Geez, I have stuff back from '09 on this drive -_- its gonna be a LONG night...
 
Trust me when I say I feel your pain... It took me close to two weeks to complete the reorganization and archival of my PC last time...
 
1 out of 3 partitions:
27,332 Files, 4428 folders *twitch twitch*



I'd REALLY like go to back to '10 when I loaded this thing up and find out what I was thinking when 1 folder mutated into 12 LOL
 
Am I the only person who backs up to DVD and stores the DVDs in a safe place? Or is that now ancient practice?

At least with DVDs, I don't have to worry about mechanical failure, just making sure they are in a secure place where nothing can scratch them, add dust to them (though this is less of a concern with a DVD cleaning kit), or get liquid on them. When I need data, I transfer it to my hard drive and then use it. It takes time, but I feel comfortable knowing my data is easy to retrieve although a bit inconvenient.
 
I use optical media only for the most important of information... You do know that 500GB of data will take over 100 DVD disks, right??? :lol:
 
*faints*
That is a LOT of files!

For me;
Partition 1 of 3: 25,811 Files, 4353 Folders
Partition 2 of 3: 3,871 Files, 214 Folders
Partition 3 of 3: 260,740 Files, 56,771 Folders
 
I use optical media only for the most important of information... You do know that 500GB of data will take over 100 DVD disks, right??? :lol:

I have a 300 disc wallet containing my backups. I think I'm good. ;) I label each disc with the date of the backup so I know what I was working on at that time and can go back to get my data.

In terms of price per GB, DVDs wins over any other alternative. Nearly 0.5 TB for $20 or less in the US.
 
Data.jpg
Yea, I have a lot of stuff... -- I had to close my network locations folder. The directory has more info in it than I need out.
And I have yet to correct my Computer's network name... Whoops!
 
I just figured that HDDs can fail at any random moment
Anything can fail at any random moment, whether it be HD, SSD, or optical. So I agree with GZ and you should keep multiple backups in multiple formats. That said, I always buy "enterprise class" hard drives because they are designed to be run 24/7/365. (See Enterprise Class Hard Drives).

Am I the only person who backs up to DVD and stores the DVDs in a safe place? Or is that now ancient practice?
No, but sadly, you appear to be one of the few who actually does backups. :(

I have several backup strategies. First, all my PCs are configured with a small HD or SSD as the boot drive, and another drive for all my data and program files. So if I loose my boot drive, I still have all my data. Then I have my old XP machine downstairs serving (figuratively and literally) as my backup server/NAS.

Then I also have images burned to DVDs and for my little IT consulting business, I keep a copy of that image in my safe deposit box at the bank. Off site storage is essential as it ensures you still have access to your data in the event your house is blown away by tornado, burned by fire, flooded, or if you are burglarized and your computers are stolen (sadly, people don't even consider "physical security". :(

Another thing I do is store all my data somewhere under My Documents. Then all I have to do is drag and drop a copy of My Documents onto the networked computer in the basement and now I have current backup of all my data. And certainly, all my data is worth much more than all my computers.

And then there is on-line storage - like Carbonite. I have not used it because I don't yet fully trust "the cloud" to protect my data from loss, or hackers. But Carbonite does appear to be a good alternative.


Electronics life is measured in Power on Hours...
I wish I knew how POH came to be a measure of electronics. It is not really. Electromechanical devices (like hard drives) maybe. POH came out of MTBF - "meantime between failures" rates. It is measured in hours, but not "power-on" hours. Although it may not seem logical to consider failures while powered off, that time must still be factored in. Simple aging, environmental, galvanic corrosion due to dissimilar metals in the devices, power surges/anomalies (when powered on) and other factors affect life expectancy. Even the expansion/contraction of the "matter" during heat up and cool down (power on, power off) cycles affects aging (as opposed to running 24/7 at a constant temp).

You cannot leave a brand new electronics device on a shelf for 10 years and have certainty it will fire up. :( This is especially true of things with grease in them - like drive and fan motors, and other mechanical, or electromechanical devices. POH with devices with moving parts may help determine reliability, but for pure electronics, it is not a good method of comparison. In fact, if not mistaken, POH came out of, or became commonly used by marketing departments of hard drive manufacturers. Not out of the pure electronics side.

At least with DVDs, I don't have to worry about mechanical failure
Assuming the initial "burn" was a success, this is basically true. But note optical disks are NOT considered good for long term (years) archiving. They even have a name for it - Disc Rot and it particularly affects recordable (not factory pressed) disks.

Oh, BTW, speaking of scratches - a rubbing a clean thumb smeared with toothpaste over a scratched disk can "polish" the scratch right out and make the disk usable again - if the scratch did not go all the way through the protective layer. It takes some force and when done right, your thumb will get pretty warm from friction. Then a careful rinse and polish with a clean, lint free microfiber cloth finishes it up. This works great for watch crystals too - though be careful rinsing if not water proof.
 
Thanks for the great info! I'm not too worried about disc rot, and I always verify my discs after burning them prior to deleting or moving the data off my drive. My discs are stored in a safe place away from the elements, and every few years, I tend to copy the ISOs to my hard drive and burn new discs or keep the ISOs saved for burning later. I keep much of my important data backed up to my hard drives and to discs so I have it in three or more places. I have some burnt DVDs that are over seven years old that still read just fine in my desktop DVD-RW drive. My laptop is a little more finicky about reading and writing discs; I think this has been true of all laptops I've ever owned. I do not find CD/DVD readers to be very reliable in the slimmed down drives in laptops, or maybe I've just had bad luck with them.

I have about 4 TB worth of hard disk space available for backups and data, and then I have about 600 DVDs filled with home movies, music, documents, software I've developed, etc.
 
I use DVD's for storing back up files too. My oldest is 8 years old and works fine and I just have it on a standard DVD plastic case. Of course now it can be price effective to get a BluRay burner and use BD for backup, 25GB per single sided disk. I can put an image and MacriumPE on one disk.
Wishtobeanaussie you are way to paranoid IMO. In your thinking you should never turn on your PC, it may fail at anytime. don't drive your car, it may quit running at anytime....

HDDs are quite reliable, I have a 80GB Toshiba from a 2005 Dell laptop for extra storage running 24/7 that has POH of over 5000.
 
POH of over 5000
I assume you meant over 50,000 since 6 x 365 x 24 = 52,560. 5000 is less than 9 months.

I do note that many motors will keep on running, until stopped by something else - like a human cutting power. Then the grease in the bearings (or what's left of the grease) finally cools, stiffens up, and seizes the bearings. :(
 

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