2060 Super (MSI Ventus) and PSU Gamemax GP-500b

JinHo

JinHo

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Hello. I have a question about 2060 Super (MSI Ventus) and PSU Gamemax GP-500b
Would this build work correctly?
Nvidia site says I need at least 550W PSU
While GPUCHECK says I need at least 450W.
Where is the truth? Is there anyone with 500W PSU (80+ Bronze) and 2060 super installed
 
The other problem here is not just wattage. It's quality.

Gamemax are notoriously poor quality PSUs. Don't fall into the trap of "it has enough wattage, so it is fine" - wattage is useless without quality.

This is the sole component that supplies power to the rest of your system, and cheap power supplies usually means it's made with cheap parts, and you should never go cheap on safety. The number of times that computer components have been damaged or the computers stability has been compromised because of a poor power supply is countless.

A 2060S can run on a 500W fairly fine, but like Rob has stated above, the manufacturer will recommend higher under the premise it knows people will likely have poor quality, which that Gamemax will be. On top of that, the Gamemax GP from my awareness actually only delivers about 400W on the 12V rail, which for a 500W, is pretty poor. So it's more a 400W with a 500W sticker on it.

So in short:
Will it work? Probably.
Is it a sensible and safe idea to run it? No.
 
Thanks, everyone. So I`ll buy 600w PSU. What manufacturer can You recommend ? I know Coursair are one of the best, buy their prices are....hm....
 
JinHo said:
I know Coursair are one of the best, buy their prices are....hm....
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Well again, brands are almost a bit irrelevant. Brands make good and bad units. Just some brands have many more good units than they do bad. It just so happens Gamemax are one of the low players that I have yet to see make anything good (based on my location!)

For example EVGA make a TON of trash units. But also make some excellent ones. Corsair have mostly great ones, but also have their budget VS line which is not made for gaming systems.

So it's not the brand necessarily, it's more specifically what model you get. If you do look at Corsair, you'd usually want at a minimum a grey label CX550.

If you start trying to cut corners and go lower quality, that's when it can come round to bite you. I've worked with too many systems where a poor quality PSU was put together with expensive components, only for the PSU to go "bang" and take out their brand new GPU. It might be best finding some units that fit your budget from reputable brands and then confirming if that particular model is any good or not.
 
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JinHo said:
Would this build work correctly?
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There's not enough information. What type and how many drives? How many fans? How many sticks and what type RAM? What CPU?

So the right way to determine the proper size PSU needed is to research all the individual components, determine their maximum power demand, add them all up, and that is the minimum supply you should get. But that takes a lot of time and work. So I recommend using a good PSU calculator and the best and only one I use or recommend is the eXtreme OuterVision PSU Calculator. This will calculate your minimum needs and recommend a suitable size for those needs.

Plug in all your current components. Be sure to plan ahead and include all the hardware you think you might add in 2 or 3 years (extra drives, bigger or second video card, more RAM, etc.).

I recommend setting CPU utilization to 100% and Computer Utilization Time to 16 hours per day. These settings will help compensate for component aging, and add a little extra padding to the results. Having a little extra headroom allows the PSU to operate a little cooler and that typically means a little quieter too. It also leaves a little wiggle room for future, more power-hungry upgrades.

Note that no calculator wants to recommend a PSU that is underpowered so they all pad the results, some more than others. The eXtreme OuterVision calculator is and can be the most conservative (a good thing!) for 2 main reasons. (1) They have a team of researchers on staff constantly researching components for us to keep their extensive databases accurate and current. And (2), it is the most flexible and has the most extensive databases of available options you can enter. This allows it to factor in all possible components to accurately calculate our needs rather than guess or pick arbitrary numbers out of the air.

I also agree to get a quality supply. I like to use this analogy; you would not buy a brand new Porsche then fill it up with generic fuel from the corner Tobacco and Bait shop. At least a car engine can miss a beat and keep running but not so with high-speed digital electronics.

I like EVGA and Seasonic PSUs. We use EVGA almost exclusively in all our builds here. Mostly SuperNOVA Golds but just finished building 3 PCs for a client using 500W BQ EVGAs. The BQ series is their budget line of semi-modular "Bronze" supplies. Really nice for a budget model as they have quality/quiet 120mm fans and a nice 5 year warranty. Frankly, I have never encountered a trashy EVGA. But I will say this, until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, even the best models from the best manufacturers will occasionally have a unit that is faulty or fails prematurely. As for Corsair, they changed OEM suppliers a few years ago. I'd stick to their upper tiers.

I also recommend getting at least an 80 PLUS "Bronze" if the budget is tight. But if possible go for "Gold". Platinum and Titanium are not worth the extra cost unless you happen upon a "too good to pass up" sale. Just understand 80 PLUS certification is only about efficiency (the amount of energy lost in the form of heat). A higher certification does NOT indicate better reliability, better ripple suppression, tighter regulation or tolerances, lower noise, etc.
PCTailor said:
the manufacturer will recommend higher under the premise it knows people will likely have poor quality
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Ummm, no. Sorry but that is not the reason. Manufacturers always recommend higher wattage for the same reason PSU calculators do - they never want to recommend an underpowered PSU as that would be a mistake (and potentially dangerous!) on many levels. Buying too big never hurts anything, except maybe the budget for the initial purchase.
 
I've bought nothing but Antec PSUs and have been a happy customer. Not saying you can't get a dud, it happens. I bought a 750 gold (for what ever gold is worth) for future expansion. So when you chose a PSU, you might want to consider upgrades further down the road. A PSU is the heart of the system, and if it goes out it can take the PC with it. And on this topic, this is why I also bought a nice, high quality UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply). I can't tell you how many threads I've read over the years from numerous tech forums where a user had their computer hosed because of a power outage. It may seem trivial, but it does happen. A sudden loss of power can not only have the potential to mess your computer up, but also data integrity, etc. I bought a CyberPower CP850PFCLCD which is compatible with active PSUs and has pure sinewave. It's very important to have pure sinewave because if you use a surge protector power strip to add more outlets and the battery kicks in you could have a fire on your hands if the output is not pure sinewave.

At any rate, I like to read reviews on the product I intend on buying at multiple vendors and with Amazon I use fakespot.com to get a reviews grade. This isn't a grade on the product, just a grade on whether the reviews can be trusted or not. Companies pay people to create positive reviews all over the place and on unboxing YouTube videos. It's all part and parcel of something called AstroTurf where there's no real grass roots.

At any rate, the old adage applies: buyer beware.


Listan looks like a decent company. Listan
 
Just a quick note I realize you have already purchased psu but I saw a remark that Corsair are the best above and while that was true many years ago because the were made
primarily by Seasonic, the known best Psu. However once Corsair established their reputation they immediately moved on to some of the poorest quality manufacturers (please understand Corsair is a distributor they really don't actually manufacture anything) available.
Most believe Seasonic and Super Flower (who make the majority of the better EVGA psus) are the best while the upper end of Enermax which they actually make are better as well.
As many have said here brand name with psus is way more important than wattage especially since there are no uniform testing standards with psus anyway. Your Gigabyte model is made by CWT which is an average maker at best and Gigabyte seems to use them and FSP mostly with a smattering of poor quality Andyson and a few I have never heard of.
Antec has quite a few made by Seasonic including HCG, True Power New,True Power Classic, Edge II(not out yet), and Neo Power models.
 
Years ago, I bought nothing but Antec power supplies, Antec cases and quite a few Antec fans. I can't say anything bad about them - that is, I don't feel the quality or reliability of any of their products have gone downhill over the years. I don't think you can go wrong with Antec. However, I do feel they have done little to keep up with the times. It seems the competition has leapfrogged past them.

It should be noted that very few PSU brands are actually made by that brand. Most are made by a relatively few manufacturers, then rebranded. See Who's Who In Power Supplies: Brands, Labels, And OEMs. As for Corsair PSUs, again, their top tier models are still excellent options worth considering.

Having said that, I have seen super budget, generic PSUs in old Dell, Acer, Compaq (pre-HP), and HP systems still chugging along after 10+ years of total neglect. Go figure.

As for user reviews on Amazon and other sites, look at user reviews but do NOT put too much stock in them. With user reviews, it is important to note happy users don't complain. Most reviews are written within a day or two of receiving the product. Most reviewers don't come back after they have used the product for a while to write reviews. Also, users typically don't have comparable products to compare with for proper side-by-side (A-B) comparisons, nor do they have properly equipped testing facilities or the necessary technical training for a proper evaluation.

Often times you will see products down-rated because it was a different color than shown on Newegg, the Post Office delivered to the house next door, UPS delivered it a day late, or the box looked like it fell off the FedEx truck. So if I am considering a product, I read the user reviews but I don't put a lot of stock in them UNLESS there are several complaining about the EXACT SAME genuine fault/defect with the actual product.
Ghost Protocol said:
It's very important to have pure sinewave because if you use a surge protector power strip to add more outlets and the battery kicks in you could have a fire on your hands if the output is not pure sinewave.
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:( Sorry, but that is totally inaccurate - it's a hoax perpetrated by the marketing weenies working for CyberPower and other companies that make pure sinewave UPS in their deceptive attempts to pull market share away from the UPS makers (like APC) who make "stepped approximation" output UPS.

Fact is, there is a lot of "marketing" hype about "pure" sine wave output UPS. Don't fall for it! That's all it is, marketing hype.

Any 1/2 way decent AC/DC power supply can handle the "stepped sine wave" or "stepped approximation" waveform just fine. They have for the last 25+ years with no problems so there is no reason to believe the much more reliable and robust power supplies of today can't either. They are much more capable at handling power line anomalies than PSUs of yesteryear.

And that's not just computer PSUs, but the power supplies for our modems, routers, switches, monitors and more. The only time there really is a need for a "pure" sine wave output UPS is when used to support highly "sensitive" health monitoring and life support equipment as found in hospital intensive care units.

All computer and networking devices use DC voltages. It is actually easier to make a clean DC voltage converted from a stepped approximation sine wave than it is from a pure (round tops) sine wave because less filtering is required.

You may sometimes see Active PFC (power factor correction) as an "excuse" to use a pure sinewave UPS. That more "marketing hogwash"! :( In this regard, one has nothing to do with the other. Active PFC is now required for most AC/DC power supplies used in the EU and elsewhere in the world. All Active PFC means, in terms of a UPS, is the buyer must ensure the UPS can support the "inrush" current demands of the PSU and other connected devices when sizing up their UPS needs. So, as seen here for example, a 600W supply rated at 80% efficiency may have an input power demand of 750W (750 x .8 = 600). So the UPS must be sized accordingly.

But note once the PSU and other hardware are up and running, those high "inrush" power demands no longer occur.

Also do not forget that 99% of the time, the UPS is not "on-line". That is, it is not acting as a battery backup, except during a total power outage. It is just "in-line" acting as a sophisticated "automatic voltage regulator" (AVR). It is really for the AVR that we need a "good" UPS. Backup power during a full power outage is just the icing on the cake. But even then, power supplies do just fine with stepped approximation outputs.

The only reason pure sine wave UPSs have gotten a lot of attention lately is because the prices have FINALLY come down so they are within reach. That and aggressive marketing from makers of such UPS.

Since they have come way down in price in recent years, they have become competitive. So if you find one and the price is right, go for it. I don't have anything against them. Just don't believe you need it, or that it is better for your connected devices.

This article is old, but it is still very applicable today, Is a Sinewave Necessary? Still unsure of the facts? Then please read what EVGA say about their power supplies:

EVGA Knowledgebase

Q: Do EVGA Power Supplies support UPS backup devices that support Line-Interactive AVR UPS which uses a simulated/artificial sine wave?

Yes, all EVGA power supplies support UPS backup devices.
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Also, just about every UPS product manual will tell you to never connect a surge and spike protector (S&SP) to a UPS. It has nothing to do with fires. The problem is the UPS AVR (automatic voltage regulation) circuits may see the power coming from a S&SP as "dirty" and cutover to battery power unnecessarily. That can decrease the life expectancy of the batteries. And if the S&SP is on the output side, the AVR circuits may see the load as unstable and shutdown the UPS (killing power) to protect the connected devices.

If you need additional outlets on your UPS, I highly recommend using 18 inch "spider" extension cords. If you need to locate your UPS away from the wall outlet, use a standard (not S&SP) heavy duty extension cord.

Oh, another nice thing about the eXtreme OuterVision PSU calculator is it will suggest a UPS size too. However, that is just for the computer. If you want to see what you are doing and keep your network alive, you need to factor in the power requirements for those devices too.
 
I got that piece of information about not using a surge protector connected to the output of a UPS without pure sine wave from a ham radio operator. I also think he was a technician of sorts. It only makes since that if the UPS trips to battery and delivers a non pure sine wave through a surge protector, the MOVs or diodes may catch fire due to a simulates sine wave, square wave, etc. It's like using a fluorescent light in a dimmer switch or a switch controlled by a photo resistor when a TRIAC is involved. The oscillations will cause a fire. So in this respect, having the irregular sinuous wave output from a UPS inputted into a surge protector could cause havoc with a MOV or resistor designed to suppress a surge, RFI/EMI.

I'd rather protect my precious equipment comprising of my gaming desktop, radio gear, 5.1 surround sound system and laptop sitting here with pure sine wave. The cost now a days is a no brainer.

On the other hand, I just read you should never use a surge protector with a UPS. So I may change that. I only use one for more outlets and as of right now never draw more than two amps from the UPS while gaming.
 
Digerati said:
The problem is the UPS AVR (automatic voltage regulation) circuits may see the power coming from a S&SP as "dirty" and cutover to battery power unnecessarily.
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So far this has not happened. When there's a brief power outage I hear the relay kick in. Not so in normal operating fashion.
 
Interesting as I have never heard any of those points about plugging other power strips into Ups units and I sure have seen many folks do that!
 
I got that piece of information about not using a surge protector connected to the output of a UPS without pure sine wave from a ham radio operator. I also think he was a technician of sorts. It only makes since that if the UPS trips to battery and delivers a non pure sine wave through a surge protector, the MOVs or diodes may catch fire due to a simulates sine wave, square wave, etc. It's like using a fluorescent light in a dimmer switch or a switch controlled by a photo resistor when a TRIAC is involved. The oscillations will cause a fire.
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Well, sorry but your ham radio "operator" friend was misinformed and in turn, misinformed you. Please note I had a long career maintaining air traffic control and MARS radio systems for a living. Note your ham operator likely talked to the operators in my MARS stations!

I am not a technician "of sorts" but rather a formally trained and certified master electronics technician "for real" - as seen via the link in my signature. All of our systems always were protected by UPS that used stepped approximation - including our whole facility UPS. That is the entire air traffic control tower, receiver and transmitter sites, and yes, our MARS stations too. Never a problem. Not once.

If the MOVs catch fire, it is NOT due to simulated or square waves but due to excessive current and/or the MOV is defective - and clearly there would be a defective overcurrent sensor (breaker) that failed to trip too.

You must remember that stepped approximated or simulated sine wave UPS have been used with computer systems, including mission critical servers and network routers, for decades! Pure sinewave UPS have only recently come on the market for normal consumers as their prices have come down to more affordable levels. I have APC stepped approximated sine wave UPS on all my computers here, my home network gear, my home theater/big screen TV, and even my garage door opener! And I live in Tornado Alley in a 60 year old house in a 130 year old neighborhood with above the ground utilities. Power fluctuations are common. And I have never had an event where I wished I had a pure sinewave UPS.

So again, do NOT fall for the marketing "hype" about pure sinewave UPS. Hype is all it is. If you find an affordable pure sinewave UPS, great! Go for it. But do NOT think you need one. You don't.

And remember, 99.9% of the time, your equipment connected to your UPS is being powered by the line power which is being filtered by the AVR. Your connected devices are NOT being powered by the batteries, except during a full power outage. And then, you should be using that battery run time to finish your paragraph then "gracefully" shutdown the computer before the batteries run out. If you need full time backup power, get a generator. Then use the UPS to keep your devices running until the generator fires up, stabilizes, and kicks on-line.

Rich-M said:
Interesting as I have never heard any of those points about plugging other power strips into Ups units
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Check your UPS manual. I bet it is in there. And note there is nothing wrong with a basic "power strip" as long as it can support the current. The problem is with using surge and spike protectors with a UPS.
 
Digerati said:
Well, sorry but your ham radio "operator" friend was misinformed and in turn, misinformed you.
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Can you cite some sources about how a non pure sine wave won't, WON't have an adverse reaction to a MOV or the type of resistor in a surge protector from the UPS output power on battery load, please?

The rest I already know about.

My "educated" opinion about not using a surge protector with a non pure sine wave UPS was just that. Nothing about a dirty signal from other sine waves versus equipment. I'm sure like you stated it all works fine whether pure sine wave or not. Though, I bet some medical equipment MUST use pure sine wave. Like an ATC center or hospital, they both use UPS' before the generator kicks in. Funny you mention this because I just got done talking to my gaming buddy who was an aircraft controller in Alaska and we talked about redundancy if systems fail and what not.

PS: Not falling for any marketing hype. Just stated what I heard from a ham radio operator as it pertains to a non pure sine wave and surge protectors. When I bought my UPS, I actually bought it based on the company name and it's reliability not going to pot, and the pure sine wave feature was an added bonus.
 
Digerati said:
Please note I had a long career maintaining air traffic control and MARS radio systems for a living.
Click to expand...

Eisenstein came out with the idea that mass was equivalent to energy, but if alive today would probably not know where the APU was in a 737, let alone know how to start a 737. ;)
 
Ghost Protocol said:
Can you cite some sources about how a non pure sine wave won't, WON't have an adverse reaction to a MOV or the type of resistor in a surge protector from the UPS output power on battery load, please?
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Huh? That's like asking someone to show evidence ET, unicorns and Bigfoot don't exist? Not happening.

I am getting the impression you aren't really reading what I have been saying above. For example, I said don't use a surge & spike protector (S&SP) with a UPS and then you came back with "I just read you should never use a surge protector with a UPS." And now you are asking me to show where the stepped approximation waveform "won't WON'T" have an adverse reaction to a MOV! That makes no sense! If I say don't drive your car into a wall, do you want me to prove driving your car into a wall "won't WON'T" hurt the car?

CyberPower FAQ: Can I hook up a surge strip to the UPS unit?
Surge strips cannot be installed before OR after the UPS unit. Doing so will void the UPS’ warranty. If you require additional units, please upgrade your UPS to a unit that has more outlets.
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APC FAQ: Using surge strips with APC's Back-UPS and Smart-UPS products.
Surge protectors filter the power for surges and offer EMI/RFI filtering but do not efficiently distribute the power, meaning that some equipment may be deprived of the necessary amperage it requires to run properly causing your attached equipment (computer, monitor, etc) to shutdown or reboot.

Plugging your UPS into a surge protector may cause the UPS to go to battery often when it normally should remain online.
Click to expand...

I said, "The only time there really is a need for a "pure" sine wave output UPS is when used to support highly "sensitive" health monitoring and life support equipment... ." And now you come back as if you had some epiphany with "I bet some medical equipment MUST use pure sine wave." Really?

Did you read the article via the link I provided above titled, "Is a Sinewave Necessary?"

I say again, stepped approximation output UPS have been used without issues with all sorts of electronics for 25+ years - including with switched-mode PSUs commonly used with PCs. For decades, IS/IT professionals, formally trained technicians and others who are responsible for the well being of mission critical systems, the facilities they are in, as well as the health and safety of the people who operate such equipment, have not been reckless or negligent in their use of stepped approximation UPS, endangering the lives of the users of said equipment, risking the condition of the connected equipment, or critical missions it supports.

If you want to use pure sinewave UPS on your equipment, great! I have absolutely no qualms about that. In fact, with the prices of pure sinewave UPS coming down, I say go for it if you can get a good deal and the UPS has other features you want. But don't be spreading false rumors or perpetuating the inaccurate "marketing hype" that we "need" pure sinewave UPS on our computer and networking systems. That just is NOT true!

***

At this point, I am switching hats and taking off my electronics technician hat and putting on my Sysnative Moderator hat. My apologies to JinHo for my part in running your thread off-topic. I am putting it back on topic now. You asked about ensuring your PSU can support your graphics card. I believe you have got some good advice on that.
 

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