Do I need to add these Visual C++ downloads?

conceptualclarity · Oct 3, 2014

I have Visual C++ 2010 x86 Redistributable and Visual C++ Compilers 2010 Standard - enu - x86, a huge file at 612 MB.
Do I need these downloads :
Visual C++ 2010 x86 Runtime
Visual C++ 2010 Service Pack 1 Compiler Update for the Windows SDK 7.1
Visual C++ 2010 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)
Visual C++ 2010 Service Pack 1 Redistributable Package MFC Security Update
I'll also ask if I need Visual C++ 2010 Express or even the Visual Studio 2010 Express All-in-One ISO.

I have tried to download Visual Studio 2010 Service Pack 1 (which I understand is synonymous with Visual C++ 2010 Service Pack 1). I run into the message : "A compatible version of Visual Studio 2010 was not detected on the system. This update is designed for only the Microsoft Visual Studio 2010."

I'm an ordinary user, not a developer. I just don't want problems with installing programs that need these files.
I'm on Windows XP Home Edition 32-bit SP3. I know, I know--get off XP. I will start a new computer as soon as I can, but I've had a lot on my plate.

niemiro · Oct 3, 2014

Hello conceptualclarity, and welcome to Sysnative!

Visual Studio, Visual C++, all of the different versions, years, service packs....it's very confusing and you're not alone in being confused :)

Most of the files you have listed are not applicable to you - they are for developers only. As a general guide to you - if it has a large file size, it's for developers only [defining small as being up to ~50MB in size], and if it says Visual Studio, it's also for developers only. The keyword you need to look out for as things you do want is "Redistributable".

I don't intend to explain what each and every word of their terminology means here unless you really want me to - it's long and very confusing, just give you the low-down on the things you need to know.

The term Visual Studio refers to a whole package - a suite - of tools, exclusively for developers. This suite is split down into an IDE - Integrated Development Environment, the actual graphical window we developers type out code into - and backend components, invisible things we never see but which do useful work in the background. The IDE itself is split into quite a few different parts, each for it's own language - C++, C#, F# etc. This suite of tools usually costs an awful lot of money to buy (although you'll still be able to download it for free off the Microsoft website - but you'll soon find out that it's only a time limited trial).

However, to complement this massive and expensive package, Microsoft also release a free version, called the Express edition. For various reasons the Express edition doesn't wrap the individual parts of the IDE into a single suite - they all come separately. You are free to download them all if you like, but they'll all be separate, not combined. This means that each different Express edition must include in it's name the language which it supplies: e.g. Visual C++ 2010 Express, Visual C# 2010 Express, etc. By contrast, Visual Studio 2010 includes them all [the Studio part of the name shows that this is the expensive combined edition], so does not need to include the individual language names.

Therefore, all of the products I've just listed above are developer tools only - you don't need them.

As I said above, the keyword you want to look out for is "Redistributable". Why is this? It's basically saying that the developer who is writing a program has the right to redistribute that file to the public at large (basically, Microsoft is waiving their copyright restrictions allowing that file to be redistributed free of charge and restriction provided it isn't modified, misrepresented, etc.). Why is this significant? It means that the developer can send it to the end-user (someone like you). They're the files you need on your PC.

[As a quick aside, with service packs, some service packs must be installed on top of the original product, but some don't need to be - the original product is embedded within them. The rules which determine which are which are not particularly complicated, but we don't need to get into them now so I won't. Basically, Visual Studio service packs don't include the original product, but Visual C++ Redistributables do].

There's then yet another complexity (a relevant one - you have no idea how many I'm omitting but you would have to navigate if you were a developer!). VC++ 2010 [a shorthand for Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable] does NOT supersede VC++ 2005 or VC++ 2008. You need them all. Why? Pretty much because (this is slightly oversimplified) programs written in Visual Studio 2008 need VC++ 2008, programs written in Visual Studio 2005 need VC++ 2005, etc. Trust me, you need them all :)

Next complexity - "Runtime". What does it mean? Let's not go there. There's 'good' runtimes and 'bad' runtimes for the non-developer. Stick to the Redistributables and you'll be fine.

And then next? We've talked about VC++ Redistributables, but what about Visual C# Redistributables? Well, they exist, but they're called something different - .net Framework. They're almost as complex as VC++ redists but this time some versions supersede some previous versions, whilst others don't. That's an entirely separate discussion.

OK, so you've made it down here. Well done :)

Did you follow all that I said? Chances are that's a no - most people find VC++ very confusing. If you didn't, not to worry. First, I'm really happy to re-explain any parts you don't get. Second, I'll put here the actions you actually need to take, making the explanations only for interests sake [in my experience though, most people like to know at least a little of the "why" we do stuff, and the behind-the-scenes knowledge, rather than blinding following orders :)]

First, uninstall anything which says "Visual Studio". By uninstalling the IDE parts first, this should take out most of the invisible backend components without you even needing to worry.

Then uninstall these too:

Visual C++ 2010 x86 Runtime
Visual C++ 2010 Service Pack 1 Compiler Update for the Windows SDK 7.1

Then install all of the following:

1. Download details: Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)
2. Download details: Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)
3. Download details: Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package (x86)

1. Download details: Microsoft .NET Framework 1.0 Service Pack 3
2. Download details: Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1 Service Pack 1
3. Download details: Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 Service Pack 1 (x86)
4. Download details: Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 Service Pack 1
5. Download details: Microsoft .NET Framework 4 (Standalone Installer)

(don't worry too much about the newer ones for various reasons). This should cover virtually any application you throw at your computer. If, however, you do run into problems - and this is likely to come in the form of a "Side by Side Configuration is incorrect" error, please come straight back here and I'll try to put it right. Be aware that most internet forums are not equipped to deal with that particular error. A little bit of self promotion (

), at this forum we've specialists in this (and other) technical errors which require careful & specific diagnosis, so we'd love to take it on.

I hope this helps rather than just confuses more :)

Richard

conceptualclarity · Oct 3, 2014

Hello conceptualclarity, and welcome to Sysnative!

Glad to be here.

Thank you very much, Richard. That post is very helpful. It didn't confuse more, only clarified. I posted at the Microsoft forums and didn't find out much, so this is great.

It so happens I don't have Visual C++ 2010 x86 Runtime or Visual C++ 2010 Service Pack 1 Compiler Update for the Windows SDK 7.1. I do have nos. 2 and 3 of Visual C++ that you listed. For 2005 the only detail I have is "2005 Redistributable." I don't if what I've got is what you listed, and I don't know how to check. It is 5.28 MB.

The earliest .Net Framework I have is 1.1. I tried to download 1.0 Service Pack 3, 1.1 Service Pack 1, and 2.0 Service Pack 1. I got the message you see in the screenshot with all three.

I have .NET Framework 3.5 Service Pack 1. I have three .NET Framework 4s : Client Profile, Extended, and Multi-Targeting Pack. I don't know if that covers Standalone Installer.

I have a lot of Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 x86 setup files in Temp folders. No reason to keep them, is there?

I hope this thread will show up a lot in search results.

niemiro · Oct 6, 2014

Hello again :)

Which temp folders are you talking about specifically? I'm not actually an expert in Windows XP - I usually cover Vista and above, but I do know that XP has several temp folders which are required for update uninstall or as emergency backups lest the original becomes corrupt. Not being an expert in this field, I don't want to (can't) definitively list them all for you, but I would be able to recognise them. Therefore, if you can tell me which folders you're looking at, I'll tell you whether or not they're safe to delete.

That error message also indicates that the very earliest VC++ service packs might not have actually included the original files. This doesn't actually surprise me: this was back in the days when dialup was widely prevalent. If I were you though, I wouldn't be too concerned. We could perhaps install the earliest versions and work up, but if you don't have any existing programs which don't work, I don't see any need now.

OK, so I've just made a complete U-turn here on what I said earlier - you'd be quite right to ask why. It's actually because I now know you never actually ended up installing Visual Studio or half of the other updates you asked about (I know you never said you installed them in your first post, but I took the worst case scenario which was that you had).

What can happen is that program p requires VC++ library vc. You then install Visual Studio vs, which also installs vc. You then uninstall vs, which isn't supposed to take vc with it, but it might just do that anyway. Now program p doesn't work anymore, so I get you to reinstall vs1, vs2, vs3, vs4 not knowing which you actually need for various programs p1, p2, p3.

However, since we didn't need to uninstall anything here, there's no longer a pressing need to install lots of VC++ libraries. What's not installed isn't needed. Therefore don't worry about .net 1.0 and 1.1 - you don't need them. If you ever install a program which does, the program will install them with itself.

So, the U-turn is based on new knowledge rather than a change of heart - since we didn't do a mass uninstall, we don't need to now do a mass reinstall. So quite honestly you're fine to stop right here and not install anything further. It isn't needed.

Richard

P.S. Sorry for all the symbol definitions - it's very natural to me! [I'm studying for a degree in mathematics. Whoever would have guessed

]

conceptualclarity · Oct 6, 2014

Thank you for the advice.

I've enclosed a screenshot that shows what I have in the way of .NET Frameworks and Visual Cs.View attachment 9489

I've enclosed another screenshot of a MasterSeeker listing of the surprising number of temporary files I have for Visual C++ 2010.View attachment 9490

Is there any harm in me installing the .NET Frameworks I don't already have? I take it you're saying more Visual Cs might complicate things.

Pardon me for changing the subject, but I am extremely frustrated because now I cannot access any Microsoft website. I am being told over and over that the "password is incorrect" for my longstanding live.com account. It never was incorrect. LastPass accurately stores and supplies my passwords. The fault is purely on the side of Microsoft--website glitches. I have gone through live,com's prescribed ritual for changing my password over and over again. I get a message on the website and in the email that my password has been reset. And then the very next time I use it to log in I am again told my "password is incorrect."

I am very frustrated that there are absolutely no support options for a mere home user who's not an IT guy or a business or someone needing to buy something from then at this very moment. I have checked. There is no phone support, no email support, no chat support--nothing!! There is a phone number, but the robo-receptionist won't let me talk to a person and just foists on me web pages that give me nothing. The website is messing up badly and somebody on their end needs to be informed of that, but they have provided no way. For now and God only knows how long I am deprived of access to the Microsoft websites.

I wonder if as a Microsoft employee you could help me, and pass on to the relevant people that their website needs fixing. Maybe you know a channel you can't share with me on open site but could share in private message.

This is one of my worst online experiences, but I find there is far too much glitchiness on the Internet. I get tired of being told I gave a wrong captcha when I gave a right captcha. There was a site called ThreatExpert, I believe, where I was repeatedly prevented from ever registering by that glitch. I have had many, many hours of mine wasted by glitchy websites. :s6:

niemiro · Oct 7, 2014

Hello again :)

I wonder if as a Microsoft employee you could help me, and pass on to the relevant people that their website needs fixing. Maybe you know a channel you can't share with me on open site but could share in private message.

For the record, I am not actually a Microsoft employee, just a random person on the internet who happens to know a bit about Windows and helps people in my free time. This means that unfortunately, I do not have any more secret access or back-channels than you

Is there any harm in me installing the .NET Frameworks I don't already have? I take it you're saying more Visual Cs might complicate things.

There is no harm in installing more versions of either .net or VC++. I just do not see it as necessary here. But it won't cause any harm.

Pardon me for changing the subject, but I am extremely frustrated because now I cannot access any Microsoft website. I am being told over and over that the "password is incorrect" for my longstanding live.com account. It never was incorrect. LastPass accurately stores and supplies my passwords. The fault is purely on the side of Microsoft--website glitches. I have gone through live,com's prescribed ritual for changing my password over and over again. I get a message on the website and in the email that my password has been reset. And then the very next time I use it to log in I am again told my "password is incorrect."

When live.com resets your password, it will send you an email with a new, temporary password. This will be different from what LastPass stores, hence the incorrect password message. The best thing to do is to create a new password, reset your password one more time to get access to the account, change your password: https://account.live.com/changepassword.aspx, then update your LastPass vault.

Remember when changing your password that the current password is not what is currently stored by LastPass, but that which has just been emailed to you.

Richard

conceptualclarity · Oct 7, 2014

Thank you again, Richard, for the information.

I am reposting those screenshots that failed in a website glitch.
View attachment 9498 View attachment 9497
I'm also including another screenshot showing how a program wanted a Visual C Runtime. But like you said, the program took responsibility for installing it. I recall once in the past, however, that a program did not do that, and I believe I hunted down a Visual C that I didn't already have.
View attachment 9500

My problems with Microsoft began when I got an email from them on September 18 saying:

Security alert

We think that someone else might have accessed the Microsoft account co*****@ms.metrocast.net. When this happens, we require you to verify your identity with a security challenge and then change your password the next time you sign in.

If someone else has access to your account, they have your password and might be trying to access your personal information or send junk email.

If you haven't already recovered your account, we can help you do it now.

I apparently didn't see the email for a number of days. I got in touch with them on September 27. Their response was to send me a verification code and a link to change my password. I did it, and then Microsoft rejected my log-in, and I had to repeat the whole procedure. Then the password worked for a while. Then yesterday they repeatedly sent me a "Password reset code" (in place of sending me a new password itself.) I entered the reset code and proceeded to make a new password with Last Pass. (Microsoft never proferred me a password.) Microsoft would notify me that they recognized a password change. Then when I tried to do something on their site I was compelled to log in again, at which point Microsoft would immediately reject the brand new password. I am not able to get to the URL that you mentioned for password-setting because I can't get past the log-in page

niemiro · Oct 7, 2014

We've just re-tested the attachment system and can find no problems with it - and it is working for every other user of the website. I can think of a couple of possible reasons - the first is that you're not actually attaching the files to the same post you're submitting. Hear me out on this - are you opening a separate tab, window, or browser in order to attach the files, a different one from that which you are writing your post into, and then copying across the IDs? Or anything along those lines? If so, the attachment will have been uploaded to an unsubmitted post, and the server will delete it after a short time, leaving only dead-links behind. To make sure that this doesn't happen, please follow these steps exactly: https://www.sysnative.com/forums/sy...-attach-a-file-or-a-screenshot-to-a-post.html

Also, and although I don't think this is the problem here, you are using Windows XP. I can understand that you've got too much other stuff on your plate to upgrade right now, but aside from all of the security holes it is now riddled with, it can offer a generally inferior browsing experience when compared to a modern operating system. You've got to expect that as time moves on and XP gets left behind, more and more websites will be created without support for Windows XP and old browsers, and that you should expect an inferior or glitchy experience at no fault of the website owner from such websites.

conceptualclarity said:
I recall once in the past, however, that a program did not do that, and I believe I hunted down a Visual C that I didn't already have.

Yes, that does occasionally happen, especially with older software. If any programs fail to run and you can't obviously track down the missing VC++ library or whatever, that's the time to ask us for help :)

conceptualclarity said:
I apparently didn't see the email for a number of days. I got in touch with them on September 27. Their response was to send me a verification code and a link to change my password. I did it, and then Microsoft rejected my log-in, and I had to repeat the whole procedure. Then the password worked for a while. Then yesterday they repeatedly sent me a "Password reset code" (in place of sending me a new password itself.) I entered the reset code and proceeded to make a new password with Last Pass. (Microsoft never proferred me a password.) Microsoft would notify me that they recognized a password change. Then when I tried to do something on their site I was compelled to log in again, at which point Microsoft would immediately reject the brand new password. I am not able to get to the URL that you mentioned for password-setting because I can't get past the log-in page

OK, go to this website: https://account.live.com/resetpassword.aspx

and click on "Forgotten my password". I know you haven't, but this is how we'll reset it. Go through the various motions, reset codes, links to click in email, security questions, etc. - whatever those motions are, and by the end you should have been able to create an entirely new password of your own choice. If you aren't offered this, use this form: https://account.live.com/changepassword.aspx to change a temporary password to a new one. Use a brand new password you've never used before, and then store it in LastPass.

This should get you access to the account again, and you should be able to log in and out and back in again all perfectly find on the new password.

Then go check through all of the account details screens - every single one - to make sure that all listed additional contact details are yours i.e. there isn't an unfamiliar email address or phone number or security question in there which might have been placed there by a hacker.

Finally, let things sit for a few days. This should be a permanent solution. If after a couple of days things go wrong again, that's an indication that your account is still under the control of the attacker. The chances of this though are very slim what with all of your password changes, so you have nothing to worry about at this time.

Richard

conceptualclarity · Oct 7, 2014

I had to start a new post and even leave off the period at the end, all because I had reproduced the link you gave me in your last post, and everything I wrote after that was underlined as if the link continues. I tried every trick in the book to flush out that underlining, to no avail.

Back to Microsoft. I tried to see if I could communicate with the "team" that supposedly sent those emails to me by sending a reply--just "Testing." And I found it was a no-reply account. So Microsoft has really effectively walled itself off from people like me.

A strange thing happened today--coincidence? Windows Messenger suddenly appeared in my tray for the first time ever, and WinPatrol even caught it setting itself to autorun. I have never used or opened Messenger, although it's been there all along dormant in Program Files. I clicked on the tray and brought up its GUI for the first time. When I started to close it down, it warned me that Outlook Express was dependent on it, and I must close Outlook Express before I can exit Windows Messenger. (That turned out to be an idle threat.) The next thing that happened, clearly in conjunction with Messenger, was the appearance for the first time of .NET Passport Wizard. It sought to entice me thusly :

With a Passport, you can
Have online conversations with friends and family
Create your own personal web pages
Sign in instantly to all .NET Passport-enabled sites and services...

I'm satisfied with email for online conversations. I'm interested in starting a web page or two in the medium term, but I know there are plenty of other resources out there for that. On the other hand, if this would help me log in to Microsoft websites it might be worthwhile. Your thoughts?

When Messenger and the Wizard came up, it brought strong objections from an anti-keylogger freeware of mine, SnoopFree Privacy Shield.

Unauthorized Keyboard Hook
EXTREME PRIVACY RISK -- Use Extreme Caution

Program Name: "Microsoft .NET Runtime Execution Engine"
Program Path : "C:\WINDOWS\system32\mscoree.dll"

The program named above is trying to hook your keyboard. If you allow this, the program will be able to watch every key you press. If you want to allow this program to watch every key you press, you should click the 'Allow Access' button below.

If you're not sure that you want to allow this program to watch your keyboard, you can get more information by clicking the 'More Information' button below."

EXTREME PRIVACY RISK
If you have any doubts about the program that is trying to install this keyboard hook then DO NOT give it permission to do so. Be absolutely sure that you recognize this program and that you expect it to watch your keyboard.

Should I allow this program to install a "Keyboard Hook"?
If you want to be sure that your privacy is always protected, you should never allow keyboard hook access to any program.

Only allow this program to install a keyboard hook if all of the following are true:

1. You have reviewed all of the "Program Details" at the top of this window.

2. You are sure that the program file name is true and correct for the named program.

3. You recognize the program as needing to have special need to be informed of every key you press.

What is a "Keyboard Hook"?
A keyboard hook is a way for a program to be notified every time you press a key. If you allow a program to install a keyboard hook then each and every key that you press will be sent to it.

How do "Keyboard Hooks" work?
Keyboard hooks work by forcing all programs that run on your machine to load special instructions into them that are provided by the hook-installing program. Some of these instructions are executed whenever you press a key on your keyboard. However, the special instructions do not have to be limited to just responding to your keyboard. This makes keyboard hooks extremely dangerous to your privacy because there is no limitation to what these special instructions can be made to do.

When does a Spy Program use a "Keyboard Hook"?
It is very common for spy programs to use keyboard hooks to watch your keyboard. In fact, a keyboard hook is the only reliable way to be informed each and every time you press a key. Spy programs can also use keyboard hooks to install screen-capture instructions in every program that runs on your computer. This is why you should be extremely careful when deciding what programs should be allowed to install keyboard hooks.

When does a harmless program use a "Keyboard Hook"?
Some programs that provide hot-key support will install a keyboard hook to detect when you press a special combination of keys. A hot-key is a special combination of key presses that cause a program to do something. If you know that the program described above provides hot-key support then it may be safe to allow it to watch your keyboard. However, only give it access to your keyboard if you actually use the hot-keys.

We’ve also found that some firewall and anti-Trojan software also installs keyboard hooks to track all programs running on your computer. While this is true, you always want to be sure that you can trust a program that you give keyboard hook access to.

EXTREME PRIVACY RISK
If you have any doubts about the program that is trying to install this keyboard hook then DO NOT give it permission to do so. Be absolutely sure that you recognize this program and that you expect it to watch your keyboard.

Unauthorized Keyboard Hook
EXTREME PRIVACY RISK -- Use Extreme Caution

Program Name: "Windows Messenger"
Program Path : "C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe"

The program named above is trying to hook your keyboard. If you allow this, the program will be able to watch every key you press. If you want to allow this program to watch every key you press, you should click the 'Allow Access' button below.

If you're not sure that you want to allow this program to watch your keyboard, you can get more information by clicking the 'More Information' button below

The same second message followed.

What do you think about all of this? I'm not at all familiar with keyboard hooks.

conceptualclarity · Oct 7, 2014

If you want to insert an image within your post, click on the image icon -

Click on Browse and locate the image file on your system -

Submit your post.

That is exactly what I have been doing. I haven't been opening a separate tab or window or program while attaching those files. I've done it just like in the pictures sandwiched between the text I quoted above from the tutorial. The window where I do the work opens up for me right over my Advanced Reply box.

I'll try that method one last time with the three screenshots.

When I see the reply in preview before submitting I always see those image files looking colorful in the body of text of the reply. So it seems that what is going wrong is going wrong after I click Submit.

conceptualclarity · Oct 7, 2014

Whew! Well, it worked this time, and I promise I didn't do anything different. Thank you for linking to that tutorial, Richard.

I do look forward to moving on from XP to Windows 7. No nostalgia at work here.

OK, go to this website: https://account.live.com/resetpassword.aspx

and click on "Forgotten my password". I know you haven't,

Actually I know that page like the back of my hand, I've utilized it so many times lately.

but this is how we'll reset it. Go through the various motions, reset codes, links to click in email, security questions, etc. - whatever those motions are, and by the end you should have been able to create an entirely new password of your own choice. If you aren't offered this, use this form: https://account.live.com/changepassword.aspx to change a temporary password to a new one. Use a brand new password you've never used before, and then store it in LastPass.

This should get you access to the account again, and you should be able to log in and out and back in again all perfectly find on the new password.

I think I'm going to give it a rest now, and come back another day with a well-rested computer and I will try again doing just as you said here.

Then go check through all of the account details screens - every single one - to make sure that all listed additional contact details are yours i.e. there isn't an unfamiliar email address or phone number or security question in there which might have been placed there by a hacker.

Could you explain what you're speaking of with the account details screens? I certainly agree it is important to look hard for any evidence of intrusion wherever there is an opportunity.

If after a couple of days things go wrong again, that's an indication that your account is still under the control of the attacker.

I'm pretty skeptical that there actually was a hacking rather than just a glitch at the September 18 juncture, but I'm not closed-minded.

I need to mention I have had lesser amounts of password trouble in these last few days. I have had several websites reject my log-in once, and twice I have had Last Pass itself tell me I gave them the wrong password, the password I've had with them from the start of the four years or so. There is a big difference with the Microsoft case, though. In all these other cases I re-entered the same password and username and things quickly got back to normal. With Microsoft no amount of persistence gets me anywhere. If the bugginess I describe continues, I'm going to report it to LastPass.

Thank you again for your help, Richard.

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Do I need to add these Visual C++ downloads?

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