Violence in the Skies. Outraged!

[Digerati]

Flight attendant suffers broken bones in ‘one of the worst displays of unruly behavior’ in the skies

The American Airlines CEO has banned this idiot for life from flying on any American Airlines flight again. But that is not near good enough!

As the CEO states here, there must also be "aggressive criminal prosecute". Not just a slap on the wrist with piddling fines and probation. But real prison time with real fines.

But that's still not good enough. "ALL" the other airlines of the world - or at least all who fly in this country need to ban this person, and all other unruly customers for life too.

This flight attendant, who suffered this horrific, unprovoked attack, will be scarred for life. Her physical injuries may heal, but certainly not her emotional injuries - not completely. Her attacker, and others like him, must pay the consequences for inflicting such lifetime pain too.

Note of the more than 5,000 reports of unruly passengers this year alone!!, only 216 have resulted in any sort of criminal prosecution! And apparently, not one was sentenced to spend even 1 day in jail.

It is important to understand the events here. It was an unprovoked attack. It was not a "knee-jerk" reaction. Yes, the flight attendant accidentally bumped into this passenger, but she also immediately apologized for doing so. But then, and this is significant, this passenger sat and stewed and thought about it for awhile. And, it was only after stewing for awhile that he decided to walk into the galley and punch her twice in the face, breaking several bones in her face.

It should be noted it does not require days or even hours between the initial thought and the act for a crime to be considered "premeditated".

How long does it take for premeditation to occur?

The amount of time needed for premeditation regarding an act depends on the person and the circumstances. It must be long enough, after forming the intent to act, for the person to have been fully conscious of the intent and to have considered the act. A design formed to commit a crime or to do some other thing before it is done.

What is premeditated and deliberate conduct?

Someone premeditates a crime by considering it before committing it. Premeditation requires that the defendant think out the act, no matter how quickly—it can be as simple deciding to pick up a hammer that is lying nearby and to use it as a weapon.

Time alone doesn't determine whether a defendant premeditated and deliberated. All premeditation and deliberation require is the time it takes to form the intent, ponder the crime, and then act. Defendants can premeditate and deliberate in a matter of minutes, as long as the thought process occurs before the act.

 

[britechguy]

It really is long past time for "throwing the book" at these clowns that would perpetrate such attacks to become standard practice.

It simply cannot be tolerated, and it serves no one for any sort of an assault on flight crew to deserve "only a slap on the wrist."

It's also long past time for Americans to learn that you live by "the rules of the house" regardless of who's house you're in. You don't get to reject the requirements of a given airline if you wish to fly on that airline. And if all airlines require something, then you don't get to reject it if you want to fly, period.

I'd say, generally, "Grow the **** up!," but the problem is these are adults who are actively choosing criminal behavior. They know what they're doing.

 

[andrewlen]

Agree with Brian. Aught to be jail time for that sort of behaviour on a plane.

I couldn't read the article though. I never visit the Washington Post site, and despite turning off all ad-blocking software, still got this.

They've got buckleys chance of me paying to read the occasional linked article I see on posts. Greedy buggers.

 

[A Guy]

Jail, fines, automatic banning from flying on any airline. These jerks have been and continue to be enabled by the people they listen to. Time to let them know it's not anything goes

A Guy

 

[Digerati]

These jerks have been and continue to be enabled by the people they listen to.

Is someone really telling these people to be unruly, to disrupt in-flight air operations, to attack and physically assault flight attendants? I don't think so.

They are being enabled by the fact no one is suffering any consequences for their actions.

I note in this case, it had nothing to do with masks.

 

[britechguy]

Is someone really telling these people to be unruly, to disrupt in-flight air operations, to attack and physically assault flight attendants? I don't think so.

They are being enabled by the fact no one is suffering any consequences for their actions.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Though your chosen example has nothing to do with masks, it does seem that a great many incidents (whether on planes or elsewhere) have been about just that. And that behavior is directly enabled by the preaching that "personal freedom" (by which they mean personal license - because freedom comes with mutual obligations and responsibilities to others so as to not impinge on their personal freedom) means not having to do anything one does not wish to do, no matter how sensible it may be.

The anti-mask contingent, and it's propaganda, has a direct influence on the actions of many of those unruly passengers.

 

[Digerati]

Violence in the skies is not something new that suddenly came about with COVID. While I personally think COVID is being used as an excuse for incompetence and bad behavior way too often these days, this case is not about that. So to prevent this topic from being driven OT, lets please leave COVID out of it.

That was my intent when I said this case was not about COVID. So again, please, don't turn this discussion about violence and unruly passengers in the skies about COVID.

 

[Corday]

Must be a privileged individual since he was flying first class.

 

[britechguy]

So again, please, don't turn this discussion about violence and unruly passengers in the skies about COVID.

Well, then, at this time there really isn't much violence in the skies to be concerned about. You have chosen to ignore the primary precipitating factor of the moment. The example you provided is an exception, not the rule as things stand at the moment. You can't ignore precipitating factors.

But I'll stick with my initial assertion: These people need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law, and consistently.

 

[Will]

I agree it's outrageous any passenger would do something like this (or really anyone in any circumstances).

Note of the more than 5,000 reports of unruly passengers this year alone!!, only 216 have resulted in any sort of criminal prosecution! And apparently, not one was sentenced to spend even 1 day in jail.

I'm not sure on the stats around criminal prosecution, but it is worth noting that the FAA will typically fine a passenger for these incidents. The total amount fined to passengers in 2021 was over $1million as of August:
https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-fines-against-unruly-passengers-reach-1m

The fine for a plane needing to divert is usually $40k+ - in this case, it may be more, and both the airline and flight attendant may be entitled to sue the passenger on top of any FAA fines + criminal prosecution.

I note in this case, it had nothing to do with masks.

NPR reported that another passenger mentioned that they were drunk and "they didn't want to wear a mask" which may have been part of the reason:
American Airlines plane is diverted after a passenger assaults a flight attendant

This would potentially add another $1k in fines - although if the passenger was travelling first class on their own dime, they may not care much about the $50k in fines or so.

 

[Will]

Must be a privileged individual since he was flying first class.

For sure - but could also be a work trip where his company paid for the travel, or potentially smart use of points to upgrade to 1st class.

 

[Digerati]

I have twice been bumped up to first class. Once when I was in uniform returning from overseas. That was very nice since it was an 8 hour flight. It was a real privilege but I certainly am not privileged.

Another time I was just lucky they picked me when a seat opened up due to a last minute cancellation.

I also splurged once and bought first class tickets for my wife and I for a long overdue and deserved vacation/anniversary present. Those tickets cost me a pretty penny - and went on a credit card that took awhile to pay off. Not sure I would call having to go into debt to pay for plane tickets a privilege - though I suppose some might consider it a privilege to have a credit card with that big a limit, and with that much available credit left on it to be able to charge that amount.

So its all relative, isn't it?

 

[A Guy]

Is someone really telling these people to be unruly, to disrupt in-flight air operations, to attack and physically assault flight attendants? I don't think so.

They are being enabled by the fact no one is suffering any consequences for their actions.

I note in this case, it had nothing to do with masks.

They have been enabled by their "leaders" to scream and be violent as an acceptable means of getting their way without any merit or proof or science or reason. It's obviously something that was in them, but mostly restrained by social norms. But since their "leader" made it acceptable to lie, condone extremists, disregard the truth, etc. they are out and Pandora's box can never be closed again. It's just another manifestation of the yell louder to "prove" my point...



A Guy

 

[Digerati]

They have been enabled by their "leaders" to scream and be violent as an acceptable means of getting their way without any merit or proof or science or reason.

No! Not true. Maybe on the ground at rallies, but they have NOT been told to do this while in-flight. They are stupid but not that stupid.

 

[britechguy]

but they have NOT been told to do this while in-flight.

You seem to believe that this is a necessary condition. Many of us don't.

If you've ever dealt with either a bully or a "human steamroller" what they do is about training that has occurred over many years of life experience about what they can get away with and what they "deserve" to be able to do.

It carries over to many, many contexts without explicit instruction. We are in a place right now where self-styled righteous anger (which in reality is anything but) is used as a justification for these kinds of actions by a certain segment of society. And that has been cultivated in certain circles for decades now.

We are reaping what certain quarters have very carefully sown, and we see those same quarters consistently excusing or ignoring same behavior when it serves their purposes.

 

[Digerati]

You seem to believe that this is a necessary condition. Many of us don't.

No I don't. Please don't read into my words something I never said or implied. That's really not cool.

"Leaders" are NOT telling or enabling passengers on planes to punch flight attendants in the face during mid-flight!

That suggests these idiots are acting on behalf of or in the name of some group (or their leaders) and that is just ridiculous. These are individuals, most of whom can't hold their liquor especially at altitude, who are just stupid. They may be bullies but that is immaterial here.

If there is any enabling going on, it is simply due to society failing to levy any real consequences on these idiots. It is only recently that stiff (if that is even the reality) fines have been levied but considering there is often violence too, jail time is essentially non-existent.

Would these same idiots go up and punch a cop in the face? No. Why? Because they know they will be hauled off to jail.

The fine for a plane needing to divert is usually $40k+

Except that is only the possible fine, not what they are actually getting. If you look at this FAA article from Aug 19, 2021, only 2 people were fined over $40K. The fine amount drops rapidly from there down to a slap on the wrist for just a small handful of offenders.

I bet the "cost" for diverting a plane and all the delays that causes is way more than $40K in both tangible and intangible costs to the airline as well as all the other passengers. There's fuel costs, landing and ground service fees, rebooking costs, aircrew costs - and that's just for the airlines. All the other passengers, at the very least, are greatly inconvenienced. Many will miss connecting flights, have to buy additional meals, deal with hotels and car rental and more. If the passengers have to disembark, then there will be expenses for airport, and perhaps TSA too. And then there are the costs for law enforcement to arrest, haul the idiot away and process him for booking.

Just a couple hours ago, Transportation Secretary Buttigieg announced a federal "no fly list" for violent passengers "should be on the table". Then I say, get it done now. But will Congress act accordingly and with haste?

Now if you want to blame those "leaders" for "enabling", you might have a case.

 

[britechguy]

or implied.

You and I are at distinct odds as to what the implications of what you write are. And I don't seem to be the only person drawing similar conclusions.

You want direct cause and effect in order for anything about "leaders" and "telling" to be a necessary condition. Much of what the leaders have been saying directly encourages precisely this kind of lawlessness. And some of what they've been doing, too.

To ignore that is to be willfully blind.

 

[Corday]

Finally released the guys name. It's Ryan Cajimat, 21 years old. Sounds like a young man who couldn't hold his liquor.

 

[Digerati]

You want direct cause and effect in order for anything about "leaders" and "telling" to be a necessary condition.

There you go again pretending to know what I want and mispresenting what I said. I try to be very careful in choosing my words so I say what I mean. What I want is for you to stop mispresenting others. You are not good at it.

And if there are other people drawing similar conclusions, let them speak for themselves - or name names so they will stop cowering behind you - if this is true.

Then show us where any leader has even implied that passengers should be unruly and attack flight crews on airlines in flight.

Finally released the guys name. It's Ryan Cajimat, 21 years old.

That's a different case from December 2020 - see https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...senger-fined-52k-charged-with-assaulting-crew.

 

[Corday]

My bad. The incident is so similar.