Should you use a registry cleaner?

[Corrine]

From Microsoft, Are registry cleaners necessary?:

The Windows* registry is a database that lists all of the configuration settings that determine how Windows looks and behaves. Sometimes, settings that are no longer needed will remain in the registry in case they're ever needed again. There's nothing unusual about this, and this data is small in size.

Some products available for free on the Internet suggest the registry needs regular maintenance or cleaning. Although a registry setting can become corrupt on occasion, in general, the registry is self-sufficient. If you decide to install a registry cleaner, be sure to research the product and only download and install programs from software publishers that you trust.

[h=3]Warnings[/h]

• Some programs available for free on the Internet might contain spyware, adware, or viruses. Only download and install programs from software publishers that you trust. Even if you trust the website you download the program from, you need to also trust the publisher of the program. For more information, see When to trust a software publisher.
  
• We strongly recommend that you only change values in the registry that you understand or have been instructed to change by a source you trust. Be sure to back up the registry before making any changes.

I personally do not recommend registry cleaners. Although I've used CCleaner in the past for cleaning up unwanted cookies, the last time I decided to use it, my computer immediately blue-screened, and I wasn't even using the registry cleaner part.

Regarding Windows Error Reporting, although old error reports may not be helpful, the WER is useful when helping someone with a computer problem. If they've removed the reports with CCleaner, that information is lost.

 

[NoelDP]

I'm on IE11 at the moment - case of EYOD :)
I *think* the problem is actually with my 3G dongle.

Anyhow - just installed WiseFixer...
It auto-scanned as soon as it started up
Found
90 Registry errors
197 'Evidence files'(???)
17 Junk files
1 Shortcut file
2 File Association errors

Backing out from the auto-scan, I can't find a way back to the results - and there was no way to see the details.

Finding the Registry scanner and running that, it only found 68 errors (?)

A lot of HCR\CLSID\<GUID> file not found errors, a as well as what looks the same as (some of) the WCR findings.
Without paying for it, that's as far as I can go (unless I crack it - there seem to be some available hacks for it!)

Running the 'Evidence Cleaner' was interesting - I got a Chinese error message...

 

[Wrench97]

That says"Thank you for sending us the evidence, if you don't send wire transfer of $500 U.S. within 24 hrs we will forward to NSA" :hysterical:

 

[Patrick]

I'm on IE11 at the moment - case of EYOD :)
I *think* the problem is actually with my 3G dongle.

Anyhow - just installed WiseFixer...
It auto-scanned as soon as it started up
Found
90 Registry errors
197 'Evidence files'(???)
17 Junk files
1 Shortcut file
2 File Association errors

Backing out from the auto-scan, I can't find a way back to the results - and there was no way to see the details.

Finding the Registry scanner and running that, it only found 68 errors (?)

A lot of HCR\CLSID\<GUID> file not found errors, a as well as what looks the same as (some of) the WCR findings.
Without paying for it, that's as far as I can go (unless I crack it - there seem to be some available hacks for it!)

Running the 'Evidence Cleaner' was interesting - I got a Chinese error message...
View attachment 6488

Did you install this on a VM or your own machine?

 

[NoelDP]

...on a VM - I'm not that stupid :)

 

[NoelDP]

That says"Thank you for sending us the evidence, if you don't send wire transfer of $500 U.S. within 24 hrs we will forward to NSA" :hysterical:

<chuckle>
I was thinking more along the lines of
"We are Borg - you will be assimilated! Resistance is futile....!

 

[Patrick]

...on a VM - I'm not that stupid :)

Stupid was not what I was thinking, daring is more like it :grin1:

 

[tom982]

I was a registry cleaner user a few years ago, with no idea of the risks, simply drawn to the thought of being able to remove unnecessary keys/values from my computer - this was back in the days when I didn't know squat about Windows. Though I never had any problems with these, I didn't actually notice any improvements to my system and now that I'm aware of the sheer scale of problems that they could potentially cause, it's really not worth the risk in my opinion.

Dealing with Windows Update problems mean I often run into registry problems that can easily be blamed on registry cleaners without any proof, and I'm guilty of this in the past, but I did have one thread where I know PC Cleaner Pro caused the problem:

hxxp://www.sevenforums.com/windows-updates-activation/260383-microsoft-updates-has-gone-crazy.html

2,088 crucial keys were deleted, that's enough to put me off for good!

Tom

 

[Digerati]

and now that I'm aware of the sheer scale of problems that they could potentially cause

??? Please provide a link to empirical data - a real study (like that of Fred Langa above I provide), a white paper, a review site, anything besides a posters' opinion (with no supporting evidence) that illustrates this "sheer scale of problems" you noted.

Please provide a link to a industry respected expert who has conducted real research and who reports Registry cleaners will break our systems. A report that counter's experts like Mark Russinovich who reports every admin should have a good cleaner in their toolbox.

Your link illustrates one of the problems I noted above - you lump all Registry cleaners into the same pile. How is that fair? Are all anti-malware programs created equal? There are lists of rogue and fake anti-malware programs yet we don't automatically condemn them all.

There are junk and there are quality power supplies. Do we condemn them all? No! Instead, we point users to the known good products AND we teach them how to use them correctly.

PC Cleaner Pro is not CCleaner. CCleaner does NOT promise to "Fix Your PC Errors". It does not "tweak your complete system" to "Boost Your PC's Speed". It does not have a "System Optimizer" that will "adjust all your system settings at once", nor does it "remove malware".

BTW - I note the OP in that thread easily undid the changes PC Cleaner Pro made. Also, you say it shows where PC Cleaner made things worse, I disagree. He said PC Cleaner ran the night before - but he clearly states he had been having the problem for 4 days.

Please show us where Registry cleaners in general, and CCleaner specifically (since that is the ONLY one I recommend) "will usually cause more damage than good".

I contend that 10 years is a long time to hold a grudge - especially when it comes to ever-changing, ever-advancing IT and it behooves all of us as providers to regularly re-fresh our knowledge and re-evaluate our advice (and canned responses) to ensure what we think is true, still is.

For example, I note many of my colleagues regularly recommend the use of 3rd party defraggers like Auslogics' Disk Defrag with Windows 7 and Windows 8. Why? That is BAD advice! Or at least NOT GOOD advice. With XP, it may have been good, but not with W7 or W8. Using 3rd party defraggers will degrade performance, not improve it.

How many other software developers have been making such a destructive program of the "sheer scale" you mention for 10 years or more who are STILL in business with the same, highly recommended software?

Just to be clear, I reiterate my position here:

• I only recommend CCleaner's Registry Cleaner because (1) it is NOT overly aggressive, (2) it prompts to backup the Registry before making changes, and (3) its backup restore works.
• CCleaner's Registry Cleaner should only be regularly used to "maintain" a working computer - NEVER to "fix" a broken computer. And by regularly, I mean preferably from Day 1.
• Not all Registry Cleaners are the same.
• CCleaner is not a Registry "fixer".
• CCleaner is not a "system optimizer/tweaker".
• Piriform has long-standing reputation of producing quality products.

To be sure, I'm no naïve spring chicken here. I've been repairing PCs professionally since BEFORE there where 300 baud dial-up BBSs and Internet tech support forums. And for sure I would be lying if I said I have never seen where the "misuse" of Registry cleaners made matters worse. But if I used that logic to dissuade users, I would advise users to NEVER install service packs, update their BIOS, pull and replace their RAM, install a new graphics card, replace a PSU or apply thermal interface materials to a CPU because for sure, I have seen more broken computers due to user abuse, misuse and missteps during upgrades and failed repair attempts than I have from the use of Registry cleaners.

 

[Patrick]

update their BIOS

You update your BIOS for bug fixes, possible performance improvements, stability, etc.

install service packs

Same as above, really. Compatibility at times as well.

pull and replace their RAM

You replace your RAM generally either because you want faster RAM, or you want the same RAM, but functional.

install a new graphics card

Same as above.

replace a PSU

Same as above but more powerful instead of faster, possibly for future proofing.

apply thermal interface materials to a CPU

To replace your old TIM due to a bad application. I would say because you needed to due to bad temperatures, but if it's not a bad application, you're likely on a very old CPU unless the original TIM application was bad or cheap.

....and you use a registry cleaner to..... what exactly? That's where I end up every time. Why even use a registry cleaner to begin with? It offers absolutely zero positive performance impact whatsoever. As far as I see it after research and personal use, the only true reason to using a registry cleaner is removing remnants of old uninstalled software or entries with now invalid path names. At times, it can also possibly be useful for removing traces of malware that may have been stored in the registry that was not successfully removed after running a virus scan, etc. A 'smaller registry' in theory would have one assume that things load faster, etc, but in reality there is no performance difference whatsoever. You are putting your OS' life in an automated tool to be absolutely sure every key it is about to delete is 100% unnecessary.

You say you have used registry cleaners for over 10 years and the outcome was far greater on the positive side than the negative, great! Why did you use these registry cleaners as an IT Professional as opposed to tackling the problem manually, especially if it's a system that is not your own? Simply because if things went south, CCleaner has a backup method? Would you do it if it didn't?

I am not attacking you here, so please do not think that. You are all my family here. I am genuinely curious as to why you are so pro-registry cleaner. I will agree I can be biased as far as registry cleaners go, a lot of people are. It's a pretty big stigma in IT.

 

[satrow]

When used judiciously, CCleaner (I still prefer the original name, Crap Cleaner) is anything but "an automated tool", unlike a number of the other software previously mentioned. That isn't to suggest that most users' don't treat it as one - many even seem to think it's some kind of anti-spyware/malware tool!

Seriously, guys, spend a little time actually studying the CCleaner options and how it works - or just uncheck the top 2 to 4 boxes in the Registry section ... it's useful as a shortcut to "doing it manually", usually giving you a few leads to work with and a bonus 'open in Regedit' option on the right-click.

When first run on a problematic PC, the Registry section often highlights areas where the User/Owner has been messing around, programs that have been installed/removed, etc.

The major problem comes long after removing default but empty entries in the Registry - many simply cannot be added back, and the (future) installers that make use of them are not always programmed to recreate them, only to populate those default 'slots'.

 

[Digerati]

Why even use a registry cleaner to begin with? It offers absolutely zero positive performance impact whatsoever.

It seems you have not been following this thread. Please read through the links I provided to Fred Langa's study and Mark Russinovich's comments.

A 'smaller registry' in theory would have one assume that things load faster, etc, but in reality there is no performance difference whatsoever.

I agree - that is an invalid argument. That's why I have never used it. And this illustrates the problem and a source of my frustration. Too often, invalid arguments are used to justified a position. Contrary to what some believe, Registry cleaners in general, and CCleaner specifically do NOT compress, compact, or defrag registries. That's what ERUNT's sister program, NTREGOPT does.

You are putting your OS' life in an automated tool to be absolutely sure every key it is about to delete is 100% unnecessary.

Hardly. Again, CCleaner prompts to backup the Registry and restoring from a backup works. Regedit has no backup facility and any change you make is immediate - with no way of backing out unless you remember what was there. Sure you can export and import, but that is hardly explanatory or intuitive for newbies.

You say you have used registry cleaners for over 10 years and the outcome was far greater on the positive side than the negative, great! Why did you use these registry cleaners as an IT Professional as opposed to tackling the problem manually, especially if it's a system that is not your own? Simply because if things went south, CCleaner has a backup method? Would you do it if it didn't?

Does being an "IT Professional" mean you automatically are, or must be an expert in all things IT??? Does being an IT Professional mean you are a master programmer? Know operating systems inside and out? Are intimate with Ohm's Law and current flow through a circuit? Does being an IT Professional mean you fully understand TCP/IP? Network layers? Security? Word Processing? File systems? Packet switching and all communication protocols?

IT is industries within industries. I am a certified master electronics technician who specializes in computer and network hardware and their "secure" operation. I am an IT Professional But I am not a programmer. I don't care to know about SQL, C++, or even HTML. Must I fully understand the difference between volatile and non-volatile hives to understand the Registry?

For the record, I have been an "IT professional" since completing extensive formal classroom, advanced correspondence, and 2-years of extensive hands-on OJT (on-the-job) training, and passing grueling evaluations to become a "certified technician" in 1973 (another 3 years to become a "master" technician). To this day, I am still learning, and discovering that there is so much more to "IT" yet to learn.

Please note I said repeatedly Registry cleaners are NOT to be used to fix broken computers.

Would I use a Registry cleaner without backing up the Registry first? No. Sorry, but that seems like a silly question.

Seriously, guys, spend a little time actually studying the CCleaner options and how it works

I really wish the naysayers would heed this excellent advice instead of automatically condemning CCleaner ONLY BECAUSE of what you heard about other Registry cleaners from years back.

or just uncheck the top 2 to 4 boxes in the Registry section ...

:) Excellent suggested. For those unfamiliar with CCleaner, when you "scan for issues" CCleaner simply lists the findings, not change them.

I am genuinely curious as to why you are so pro-registry cleaner.

Actually, it not that I am so "pro-registry cleaner", it is that I am so against unjust bashing and I will defend any product, person, company or organization that is not given due process - especially when misinformation is presented as argument points.

Sadly there are MANY "experts" and "IT Professionals" working these forums who immediately "pounce" on any thread if there is even a hint of using a Registry cleaner with all sorts of horror stories of impending doom. Yet the numbers don't pan out.

"If things went south"??? If I based my life on what would happen "if things went south", nothing would get done. The problem here is the naysayers are assuming things will go south - almost to the point of fear mongering. But again, the numbers don't pan out.

We can all cite exceptions to illustrate out points - but exceptions don't make the rule. To the naysayers, I have provided links to two respected experts who illustrate the advantages. I ask again to show us a real study that shows today's established cleaners, and in particular, CCleaner, "WILL" break your computer.

 

[Corrine]

Microsoft KB 2563254, review date 24 May 2014, Microsoft support policy for the use of registry cleaning utilities:

Summary

This article describes the Microsoft support policy for customers who use registry cleaning utilities that rely on unsupported methods to extract or modify the contents of a Windows Registry.

The Windows registry is a database of settings for all hardware, software, and user preferences on your computer that controls how Windows interacts with your hardware and applications. Windows continually references the registry in the background and it is not designed to be accessed or edited.

Some products such as registry cleaning utilities suggest that the registry needs regular maintenance or cleaning. However, serious issues can occur when you modify the registry incorrectly using these types of utilities. These issues might require users to reinstall the operating system due to instability. Microsoft cannot guarantee that these problems can be solved without a reinstallation of the Operating System as the extent of the changes made by registry cleaning utilities varies from application to application.

Additional information in the referenced KB Article, including the leading sentence in the bullet points: "Microsoft does not support the use of registry cleaners."

 

[NoelDP]

Wonderful - I know just where to post that!

Thanks, Corinne.

 

[Digerati]

"Does not support" is NOT the same as "Condemns the use of" or "recommends NOT using". MS is required to provide warranty support for 1 year with "retail" Windows licenses. Microsoft supports "Microsoft" products. I am not aware of ANY aftermarket 3rd party product Microsoft has published they do support.

Rather than repeat what I said at Landzdown, see: Microsoft support policy for the use of registry cleanering utilities

 

[NoelDP]

Sorry - not true.
1) MS free Support for retail licenses extends only to 90 days (check your EULA/SLT document)!
2) the wording in the article is actually very explicit...
"Microsoft is not responsible for issues caused by using a registry cleaning utility." - in other words, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!
"We strongly recommend that you only change values in the registry that you understand" - i.e. do not use automated tools
" Issues caused by these utilities may not be repairable and lost data may not be recoverable" - in other words, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!


without actually running the risk of 'defaming' a number of products, and without actually endorsing some third-party products, I don't see how they could possibly have put it any stronger.

 

[Digerati]

(check your EULA/SLT document)!

Ummm, I did and it is 1 year as seen here.

B. TERM OF WARRANTY; WARRANTY RECIPIENT; LENGTH OF ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES.
The limited warranty covers the software for one year after acquired by the first user. If
you receive supplements, updates, or replacement software during that year, they will be
covered for the remainder of the warranty or 30 days, whichever is longer. If the first user
transfers the software, the remainder of the warranty will apply to the recipient.

That's for 7, but it is the same for 8 - and has been that way since before XP. See License Terms and plug in what you want. That is why MS likes OEM/System builder licenses - then the system builder is responsible for support, and again for 1 year - even if that system builder is you.

2) the wording in the article is actually very explicit...

"Microsoft is not responsible for issues caused by using a registry cleaning utility." - in other words, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!
"We strongly recommend that you only change values in the registry that you understand" - i.e. do not use automated tools
" Issues caused by these utilities may not be repairable and lost data may not be recoverable" - in other words, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!


without actually running the risk of 'defaming' a number of products, and without actually endorsing some third-party products, I don't see how they could possibly have put it any stronger.

Of course it is explicit - it clearly was run through Microsoft legal to CYA. But more importantly, it says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but innuendoes about Registry cleaners that can be applied to any category of software. MS is not responsible for damage caused by 3rd party partitioning software, anti-malware software or any not made by them. BY FAR, I have seen more collateral damage from the removal of malware than I have seen from the improper use of CCleaner!

 

[joeten]

My reason for not using and not recommending is plain and simple did it and paid the price once bitten twice shy.

 

[Digerati]

Once bitten, next time I come prepared! Like ensuring I always have a good current backup (of my Registry, as well as all my data), so I don't have to "pay the price".

There is nothing wrong with being shy and cautious. But being afraid of ALL dogs for the rest of your life because ONE dog bit you is not rational.

Resizing partitions always come with risks. Acronis royally hosed my partitions once. Did I stop using re-partitioning software? Nope. Norton AV has totally hose more than one system, did I stop using Norton? Yes! But I did not stop using anti-malware software. Does flashing the BIOS come with risks? Absolutely. More than once I've ended up with a brick for a motherboard. But do I still update BIOSes? Sure!

Just as Windows 7/8 is not XP, CCleaner's registry cleaner is not the cleaner of 15 years ago. I think it is silly to assume a highly regarded company like Piriform, after more than 10 years developing CCleaner while bolstering their status as a quality software developer, would continue to release a product that is as dangerous as so many of you would like the rest of us to believe.

There are several highly regarded Registry cleaners. CCleaner's is by far, the most respected and used (and the only one I use and recommend). But also widely used is Wise Registry Cleaner, Auslogics Registry Cleaner from the same makers as the highly regarded Auslogics defragger, Comodo System Cleaner from another highly regarded developer, as well as Glary Tools.

We are talking millions and millions of users who have used these utilities 10s of millions of times. If they were as dangerous as the pundits would like us to believe, why aren't these forums (and shops like mine) inundated with computers broken by these cleaners?

You know what I find much more dangerous than CCleaner? Ads like the following as seen on sites like Sysnative.



I say rather than trying to get everybody to stop using a tool because of what it "might" (but probably won't) do, why not teach them how to use it properly to minimize those risks? That's what we do when we teach our kids to drive. That's what we do when we teach others how to operate dangerous equipment. That's especially true when we know they will use/drive/operate those things anyway.

 

[joeten]

When I said once bitten twice shy it was not to have you come back and look at it as if I did not do or know to do back ups etc please just because you like a thing don't be looking at others who have many years of experience in both using and resolving issue caused by products similar to these, as some type of inexperienced or foolhardy user.
You might consider the other side of the coin in that up to the present your luck has been in,just because you don't trip each time you take a step does not mean it won't happen, and we try to help folks who may not have either experience or the ability to revert or fix the issues these products can cause. Promoting them as safe or harmless is quite a risky path since they can be neither,as has been mentioned unless you know what a reg entry is and does (in which case you don't need a reg cleaner)for the vast majority of people they are best avoided.