- A brief description of your problem (but you can also include the steps you tried)
- Running any AAA or demanding game results in a system crash, no BSOD. I can run terraria, starbound, or stardew valley with no issue. I've been able to run these with no issue until today. I can't tell what has changed, drivers are current, system is up to date. Scanned games and system for issues with sfcscan, chkdsk, memory test (windows and mem86) with no errors, HWINFO shows no spikes in voltage when system crashes.
- System Manufacturer?
- Built my desktop: Noctua U9S air cooler / Phanteks P60s case with front air flow panel removed / x3 be quiet 140mm fans intake / x1 be quiet 140mm exhaust / x2 Samsung 980 NVMe / x1 Samsung 970 NVME / Samsung 870 pro SSD / x1 WD 1tb HDD (the SSD and HDD are not in the ports that are diabled due to NVMe)
- Laptop or Desktop?
- Desktop
- Exact model number (if laptop, check label on bottom)
- N/a
- OS ? (Windows 11, 10, 8.1, 8, 7, Vista)
- Windows 11
- x86 (32bit) or x64 (64bit)?
- 64
- (Only for Vista, Windows 7) Service pack?
- N/a
- What was original installed OS on system?
- Win 10
- Is the OS an OEM version (came pre-installed on system) or full retail version (YOU purchased it from retailer)?
- I purchased
- Age of system? (hardware)
- 2-3 years?
- Age of OS installation?
- 6> months
- Have you re-installed the OS?
- Several times, do to upgrading
- CPU
- Ryzen 3700x
- RAM (brand, EXACT model, what slots are you using?
- 32gb x8 trident z skill ram
- Video Card
- Gigabyte 3070ti
- MotherBoard - (if NOT a laptop)
- MSI x570 Gaming Edge Wifi
- Power Supply - brand & wattage (if laptop, skip this one)
- Dark power pro platinum 1000
- Is driver verifier enabled or disabled?
- No
- What security software are you using? (Firewall, antivirus, antimalware, antispyware, and so forth)
- Windows defender but most things are disabled, I work with malware
- Are you using proxy, vpn, ipfilters or similar software?
- No
- Are you using Disk Image tools? (like daemon tools, alcohol 52% or 120%, virtual CloneDrive, roxio software)
- No
- Are you currently under/overclocking? Are there overclocking software installed on your system?
- I thought I was under clocking but I guess not. There was the BIOs overclock enabled which I disabled and retried my game which failed again.
BSOD help - 20230130 Braxton2j
- Thread starter braxton2j
- Start date
ubuysa
Sysnative Staff
BSOD Kernel Dump Senior Analyst
Contributor
Hello and welcome to the forum!
I don't see any evidence of BSODs in the System log, though, like you, I do see the 'dump file creation failed' messages. In order for dumps to be written all of the following must be true...
One of the things I note from your msinfo32 output is that there seem to be two drives with the Windows partition structure on; the two 1TB 980 PRO NVMe drives? Two active Windows drives can cause lots of strange issues.
Regarding the HWMonitor data, that's a lot of numbers to trawl through and it's hard to get a full picture from the data in that form. It doesn't appear to be overheating however, although your CPU temps increase towards the crash they're not worrying at all. RAM and GPU temps are fine too. There's no point in my looking at the voltages, hardware isn't my area of expertise.
Due to the lack of BSODs and that neither your System log nor your Application logs contain any failure error messages that might account for these crashes, I think that these crashes most likely have a hardware cause. The hardware just fails underneath Windows giving it no opportunity to either log the error, attempt any recovery, or BSOD.
RAM is always the first port of call when we're looking at hardware problems. I see that you have run Memtest86 but even that's not perfect, it can't find every possible RAM problem. It seems to crash several times a day so I wonder whether you might try removing one of you four RAM sticks for a couple of days? If you rotate through the sticks so that each one is out for a couple of days you' should be able to determine for certain whether one of them is flaky.
If it was working OK and now it's not then for sure something has changed. I see you say you don't know what changed but it wouild help a great deal if you could think about what might have changed. Have you moved the PC? Bumped it? Dusted the outside even? Have you had any changes external to the PC, like a new fridge or TV, a power outage, even a new smartphone?
Since the problem happens most when gaming, you might try removing and reseating the graphics card. It's also worth removing and reseasting all the M.2 drives. It seems that the M.2 slot design can be a little flaky, I've seen many niggly issues that were solved by reseating an M.2 drive.
You could also try starting Windows in Safe Mode. You won't like it at all however, because you won't be able to do any useful work. Safe Mode loads a stripped-down version of Windows, with only critical services and drivers loaded. Typically no third-party drivers are loaded, so many devices won't work properly (or at all) and your display will be low res because you'll be using only the Windows basic display driver. The whole point of Safe Mode is to give you the most stable Windows platform possible, if it fails in Safe Mode then it's definitely a hardware cause.
Please let me know whether those two 980 PRO drives both have a Windows system installed.
I don't see any evidence of BSODs in the System log, though, like you, I do see the 'dump file creation failed' messages. In order for dumps to be written all of the following must be true...
- The page file must be on the same drive as your operating system
- Set page file to "system managed"
- Set system crash/recovery options to "Automatic memory dump"
- Windows Error Reporting (WER) system service should be set to MANUAL
- User account control must be running
- Sometimes SSD drives with older firmware do not create dumps (update firmware)
- Cleaner applications like Ccleaner delete dump files, so don't run them until you are fixed
- Bad RAM may prevent the data from being saved and written to a file on reboot, so if all else fails test your RAM.
One of the things I note from your msinfo32 output is that there seem to be two drives with the Windows partition structure on; the two 1TB 980 PRO NVMe drives? Two active Windows drives can cause lots of strange issues.
Regarding the HWMonitor data, that's a lot of numbers to trawl through and it's hard to get a full picture from the data in that form. It doesn't appear to be overheating however, although your CPU temps increase towards the crash they're not worrying at all. RAM and GPU temps are fine too. There's no point in my looking at the voltages, hardware isn't my area of expertise.
Due to the lack of BSODs and that neither your System log nor your Application logs contain any failure error messages that might account for these crashes, I think that these crashes most likely have a hardware cause. The hardware just fails underneath Windows giving it no opportunity to either log the error, attempt any recovery, or BSOD.
RAM is always the first port of call when we're looking at hardware problems. I see that you have run Memtest86 but even that's not perfect, it can't find every possible RAM problem. It seems to crash several times a day so I wonder whether you might try removing one of you four RAM sticks for a couple of days? If you rotate through the sticks so that each one is out for a couple of days you' should be able to determine for certain whether one of them is flaky.
If it was working OK and now it's not then for sure something has changed. I see you say you don't know what changed but it wouild help a great deal if you could think about what might have changed. Have you moved the PC? Bumped it? Dusted the outside even? Have you had any changes external to the PC, like a new fridge or TV, a power outage, even a new smartphone?
Since the problem happens most when gaming, you might try removing and reseating the graphics card. It's also worth removing and reseasting all the M.2 drives. It seems that the M.2 slot design can be a little flaky, I've seen many niggly issues that were solved by reseating an M.2 drive.
You could also try starting Windows in Safe Mode. You won't like it at all however, because you won't be able to do any useful work. Safe Mode loads a stripped-down version of Windows, with only critical services and drivers loaded. Typically no third-party drivers are loaded, so many devices won't work properly (or at all) and your display will be low res because you'll be using only the Windows basic display driver. The whole point of Safe Mode is to give you the most stable Windows platform possible, if it fails in Safe Mode then it's definitely a hardware cause.
Please let me know whether those two 980 PRO drives both have a Windows system installed.
I attached some additional screen grabs of settings to some of your questions
I do have the page file enabled, set to automatic, and increased the system storage amount. I even went to a complete dump and made sure there was space for the 32gb + 1mb with no change. I tried each option and caused the crash with no change. I agree with you that I believe it is hardware that is failing since there is no logs that are showing even after all my attempts.
I checked my drives with samsung magician and it shows they are all up to date, screen grab included.
I checked C:\Windows\LiveKernelDumps and there are two directories that are both empty.
I had some bad updates a few months ago that I had to rebuild my OS a few times and likely, I forgot to format that drive. I went through diskpart and erased the partitions and reformatted the drive. Screen grab attached.
For the HWINFO, I found a table that showed the max/recommended voltages that should be seen and none of my voltages left the median. I'm not familiar with that so I may have missed something but I did not see anything that spiked or looked different from anything else.
I have a spare set of corsair 32gb x8 sticks that I used before the trident set. I will swap those out and see if there is a difference. If I still get a crash after that, I will reseat all components and test the crash again. I work from home and use my desktop for work stuff so I will have to try these when I have time through the day or this evening. If I am still getting the crash, I will try your idea of rotating out one stick and see if I can narrow it down.
As far as nothing changing, I am not aware of any changes. No system updates or major software changes. We have had some power outages over the last few weeks due to bad storms but it is connected to an enterprise grade UPS. I do have to move it around sometimes but I am careful as I can be to not jostle anything. I have dusted the outside of the case while the power was off but I touched real metal (rolling toolbox in my office) before and after. No new appliances or devices in the home or office. I do work from home and game a good bit so I am using this computer pretty frequently. 29Jan is the first time I have had crashes for any reason. I only see it during demanding games and it has not crashed otherwise.
Safe mode won't really help since it is only crashing during demanding games, I won't have access to the gpu to test the games to crash.
I do have the page file enabled, set to automatic, and increased the system storage amount. I even went to a complete dump and made sure there was space for the 32gb + 1mb with no change. I tried each option and caused the crash with no change. I agree with you that I believe it is hardware that is failing since there is no logs that are showing even after all my attempts.
I checked my drives with samsung magician and it shows they are all up to date, screen grab included.
I checked C:\Windows\LiveKernelDumps and there are two directories that are both empty.
I had some bad updates a few months ago that I had to rebuild my OS a few times and likely, I forgot to format that drive. I went through diskpart and erased the partitions and reformatted the drive. Screen grab attached.
For the HWINFO, I found a table that showed the max/recommended voltages that should be seen and none of my voltages left the median. I'm not familiar with that so I may have missed something but I did not see anything that spiked or looked different from anything else.
I have a spare set of corsair 32gb x8 sticks that I used before the trident set. I will swap those out and see if there is a difference. If I still get a crash after that, I will reseat all components and test the crash again. I work from home and use my desktop for work stuff so I will have to try these when I have time through the day or this evening. If I am still getting the crash, I will try your idea of rotating out one stick and see if I can narrow it down.
As far as nothing changing, I am not aware of any changes. No system updates or major software changes. We have had some power outages over the last few weeks due to bad storms but it is connected to an enterprise grade UPS. I do have to move it around sometimes but I am careful as I can be to not jostle anything. I have dusted the outside of the case while the power was off but I touched real metal (rolling toolbox in my office) before and after. No new appliances or devices in the home or office. I do work from home and game a good bit so I am using this computer pretty frequently. 29Jan is the first time I have had crashes for any reason. I only see it during demanding games and it has not crashed otherwise.
Safe mode won't really help since it is only crashing during demanding games, I won't have access to the gpu to test the games to crash.
Attachments
ubuysa
Sysnative Staff
BSOD Kernel Dump Senior Analyst
Contributor
What's in that 930.96GB partition in Disk 0 in the Disk Management output? Is it an old/earlier Windows system?
In the page file settings dialog can you please check the box at the top 'Automatically manage paging file size for all drives'.
I would try removing and reseating the RAM and all PCIe cards, especially the graphics card. Check all cable connectors - at both ends - to ensure they are fully home.
This will sound silly, but also check that the monitor cable (HDMI/DP/etc.) is routed well away from the WIFi/Bluetooth antenna. I have see a problem that was caused by the monitor cable running between the WiFi antenna.
I understand about Safe Mode, fair enough.
In the page file settings dialog can you please check the box at the top 'Automatically manage paging file size for all drives'.
I would try removing and reseating the RAM and all PCIe cards, especially the graphics card. Check all cable connectors - at both ends - to ensure they are fully home.
This will sound silly, but also check that the monitor cable (HDMI/DP/etc.) is routed well away from the WIFi/Bluetooth antenna. I have see a problem that was caused by the monitor cable running between the WiFi antenna.
I understand about Safe Mode, fair enough.
Disk 0 is my backup drive, PerfectBackup copies my files from C to that drive. It was my old main drive (C) before I upgraded to an nvme.
I added the page file setting.
After work yesterday, I removed each piece of hardware then tested the game which crashed after reseating except the processor. I then reseated the processor and cleaned each part, removed all drives, and reinstalled everything. After that I ran user bench mark and cinebench with no issues. I then ran Diablo 4 and it didn't crash for about an hour or so. I'm not sure what that says about the processor. Though after that hour it did finally crash again and still no change in the logs.
I don't have the wifi antenna's attached but the cables are not running near that part of the I/o. I did reseat all cables to/from the monitors as well.
I added the page file setting.
After work yesterday, I removed each piece of hardware then tested the game which crashed after reseating except the processor. I then reseated the processor and cleaned each part, removed all drives, and reinstalled everything. After that I ran user bench mark and cinebench with no issues. I then ran Diablo 4 and it didn't crash for about an hour or so. I'm not sure what that says about the processor. Though after that hour it did finally crash again and still no change in the logs.
I don't have the wifi antenna's attached but the cables are not running near that part of the I/o. I did reseat all cables to/from the monitors as well.
ubuysa
Sysnative Staff
BSOD Kernel Dump Senior Analyst
Contributor
Do you fancy running Prime95 to stress the CPU and see whether that's the problem? If you've never run Prime95 let me know and I'll give you some guidance. I think this is worth doing since this does deel like a hardware problem.
You could also try a Clean Boot of Windows. That loads a full Windows system but you can selectively not load third-party drivers. It might be worth disabling all third-party drivers that you don't absolutely need to run the games that crash. If that allows you to get a stable system then a process of elimination will allow you to find any suspect driver(s).
We could also try enabling Driver Verifier too, that will allow you to load all third-party drivers but apply additional checks when they are loaded. There is some small performance impact when enabling Driver Verifier but you should be able to game with it enabled. That should highlight any flaky driver. If you want to go down that route let me know and I'll provide full instructions.
You could also try a Clean Boot of Windows. That loads a full Windows system but you can selectively not load third-party drivers. It might be worth disabling all third-party drivers that you don't absolutely need to run the games that crash. If that allows you to get a stable system then a process of elimination will allow you to find any suspect driver(s).
We could also try enabling Driver Verifier too, that will allow you to load all third-party drivers but apply additional checks when they are loaded. There is some small performance impact when enabling Driver Verifier but you should be able to game with it enabled. That should highlight any flaky driver. If you want to go down that route let me know and I'll provide full instructions.
I have never run it but I was considering it. I want to stress the components and see if they are actually the failing. Any advice would be great because that seemed a bit out of my league. Driver verifier seems like a good option as well. Whatever advice you have for that would be helpful, thank you.
I ran Prime 95 and it crashed within 5 minutes. However, I was running HWinfo and my temps were at 113 CPU before it shutdown. It didn't blue screen and it didn't boot back immediately so I think that was a heat protection and not the same crash I have been having. Normally, the game will freeze for a few seconds before everything turns off and then it restarts immediately.
ubuysa
Sysnative Staff
BSOD Kernel Dump Senior Analyst
Contributor
A stable and properly cooled CPU should be able to run Prime95 pretty much indefinitely. The max operating temp for the Ryzen 7 3600X is 95° C so you've definitely seen thermal throttling and almost certainly a thermal shutdown. That's not a happy CPU. What CPU cooler do you have? Are you sure it was repasted properly after you removed the CPU?
TBH if it's been overheating when gaming the CPU may well already be damaged. If that was mine I'd consider replacing the CPU./...
TBH if it's been overheating when gaming the CPU may well already be damaged. If that was mine I'd consider replacing the CPU./...
I haven't normally been watching temps while gaming but I can't check it now unfortunately. I'm fairly certain I applied the thermal paste correctly, I normally err on the side of a little more paste. I have a notcua NH-U9S. I also have a be quiet dark rock. I may swap the coolers out and see if there is any change.
ubuysa
Sysnative Staff
BSOD Kernel Dump Senior Analyst
Contributor
Erring on the side of more paste may not be wise. It's really only there to ensure the maximum surface area of contact between the CPU and the cooler.
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