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  1. #41

    Re: BSODs on 25-30 Computers

    Quote Originally Posted by cwsink View Post
    What happens if you try to print a picture opened up in Firefox without any fonts involved? Like a jpeg or bitmap.
    Good thought! Just tried that and it crashed again.


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  2. #42

    Re: BSODs on 25-30 Computers

    Ok, poked around a little more, and it appears it is only 32bit programs that cause the crash. Foxit, IE, and Office are all 32 bit. Chrome, Notepad, and Wordpad are all 64 bit. When I open IE in 64 bit mode and print from there, it doesn't cause a crash. I installed Firefox 64bit and printed a photo, and it didn't crash either.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    50

    Re: BSODs on 25-30 Computers

    Do you know whether or not the printer driver/software is 32 bit or 64 bit?

  4. #44

    Re: BSODs on 25-30 Computers

    Quote Originally Posted by cwsink View Post
    Do you know whether or not the printer driver/software is 32 bit or 64 bit?
    The Kyocera drivers are 64 bit. The other printer drivers are 64 bit too, but they do not cause a crash.

  5. #45

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    50

    Re: BSODs on 25-30 Computers

    Quote Originally Posted by turtlej0e View Post
    The Kyocera drivers are 64 bit. The other printer drivers are 64 bit too, but they do not cause a crash.
    Have you tried Edge? I'm guessing it won't have the problem since it's 64 bit.

    It seems like you're making good progress narrowing it down. I know you said this started after moving to the Fall Creators Update; was that from the Creators Update? Searches suggest some people have had problems with printing going from CU to FCU which suggests something might have changed but I've not seen anyone talking about bug checks during logoff/shutdown. Perhaps a subtle bug leaving a reference to a device context during the client side rendering? It seems like it's getting freed but something still tries to access it on logoff/shutdown. I suppose it could be a Windows bug but I'm not sure why it would only appear when printing to the Kyocera.

    Another thought is 32 bit only add-ins or plug-ins but again, I'm not sure why that would only effect the Kyocera printer.

    If you haven't already, I think I'd try contacting Kyocera to see if they have a driver update specifically for changes in FCU.
    turtlej0e says thanks for this.

  6. #46

    Re: BSODs on 25-30 Computers

    Quote Originally Posted by cwsink View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by turtlej0e View Post
    The Kyocera drivers are 64 bit. The other printer drivers are 64 bit too, but they do not cause a crash.
    Have you tried Edge? I'm guessing it won't have the problem since it's 64 bit.

    It seems like you're making good progress narrowing it down. I know you said this started after moving to the Fall Creators Update; was that from the Creators Update? Searches suggest some people have had problems with printing going from CU to FCU which suggests something might have changed but I've not seen anyone talking about bug checks during logoff/shutdown. Perhaps a subtle bug leaving a reference to a device context during the client side rendering? It seems like it's getting freed but something still tries to access it on logoff/shutdown. I suppose it could be a Windows bug but I'm not sure why it would only appear when printing to the Kyocera.

    Another thought is 32 bit only add-ins or plug-ins but again, I'm not sure why that would only effect the Kyocera printer.

    If you haven't already, I think I'd try contacting Kyocera to see if they have a driver update specifically for changes in FCU.
    We actually don't use Edge since it doesn't work with the Job Accounting built into the Kyocera driver. It doesn't display the popup box to insert a code which results in the job sitting in queue forever. It happens when we print from any modern Windows app, like Photos.

    I will keep digging into the issue. The latest driver we downloaded was released on December 2017, so I would imagine it would be supported in FCU, but maybe not! I appreciate your help!

  7. #47

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    50

    Re: BSODs on 25-30 Computers

    I've not tried this myself and I'm not sure it will actually be useful but perhaps the suggestion for shutdown logging in this post might be useful combined with disabling restart when a bug check occurs.

    This is perplexing.

  8. #48

    Re: BSODs on 25-30 Computers

    Quote Originally Posted by cwsink View Post
    I've not tried this myself and I'm not sure it will actually be useful but perhaps the suggestion for shutdown logging in this post might be useful combined with disabling restart when a bug check occurs.

    This is perplexing.
    That looks useful! I might try that. Our bluescreen count is down to 7-10 computers. I had gone through and disabled and then re-enabled Client Side Rendering on the Kyocera printers. It seemed to affect quite a few computers. I'm wondering if somehow the CSR function on the computers was corrupted during the FC update. I manually reset the CSR registry key on a couple computers; we'll see how that pans out.

  9. #49

    Re: BSODs on 25-30 Computers

    Good morning! Looks like deleting the CSR key didn't work, but simply removing any Kyocera printers, then removing the corresponding driver from Print Management, and finally reinstalling the printer fixes the issue. The computers show that they have the latest driver, but it still must have some old settings or residue left from the old driver. I created a script to remove the Kyocera drivers that we should be able to deploy from PDQ Deploy. The computers then should go back and fetch the latest driver from the print server.

    So to recap:
    1. The BSOD is only triggered when the user prints from a 32 bit program (on 64 bit Windows) and then logs out.
    2. The cause was an outdated Kyocera printer driver, and seems loosely connected with Client Side Print Rendering.
    3. Updating the driver fixed the issue on most of the computers, and manually removing the printer, print driver, and then reinstalling seems to fix it for computers that still have the issue.


    Two things I learned:
    1. Don't rule something out unless you have evidence it isn't related.
    2. Sysnative is awesome.


    I'm going to mark this thread as solved. Thank you so much for all your help and time you put into helping with this! I know many people appreciate the time you folks take to help debug issues, and I for one am grateful for it.

  10. #50

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    50

    Re: BSODs on 25-30 Computers

    Thank you for the update and notes on the solution. I'm glad you got it sorted and good job hunting it down.

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